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I think that is a total misread of the comment you're responding to. They're attempting to explain people's mindset, and you've quoted general statistics in re

I think that is a total misread of the comment you're responding to. They're attempting to explain people's mindset, and you've quoted general statistics in response. When someone has their car stolen, they do not take solace in the fact that, in aggregate, less people in America overall are getting their cars stolen. There is no comfort in this issue generally improving and that they were just unlucky. Instead, they are responding to the widely apparent increase in police apathy towards enforcing the law against these criminals for these property crimes. Policing criminals is not just about decreasing statistical crime. It is also about holding together the contract of society where people should not seek their own justice independently. Why? Because historically, people seeking their own justice (aka vigilantism) often do it in an unbalanced and usually cruel manner. We trust in the state to act fairly and justly when we are wronged by another. Otherwise why should we not seek to harm those who have harmed us? This is the balance that is upset by the perception that the state is not performing its duty to enact justice on all wrongdoings, no matter how they less often they are happening.

tobyjsullivan 5y ago
> When someone has their car stolen, they do not take solace in the fact that... But people aren't responding to their car being stolen, are they? They (we?) are usually responding to a story about someone else's car being stolen. Or a story about violent crime against someone we've never met. And that's what the statistics do show - there are disproportionately far more angry people than actual victims. We're getting outraged because we hear regular stories about unfair things happening to people we've never met. And I'm not suggesting these events don't matter just because they're happening to others. But it is incorrect to conflate what are effectively random and unlikely events happening to strangers as some sort of unacceptable level of threat to ourselves. This is a challenge rooted in human nature that I don't pretend to have any solution to. Nevertheless, I think it's fair to reject any of this as an excuse for outrage or the vigilantism that Citizen promotes.
jfengel 5y ago
If the "widely apparent increase in police apathy" is what's causing crime to go down, let's get more of it. If that provokes an increase in vigilantism, then the police will have something to be less apathetic about. Arrest the vigilantes.

tobyjsullivan 5y ago

> When someone has their car stolen, they do not take solace in the fact that... But people aren't responding to their car being stolen, are they? They (we?) are usually responding to a story about someone else's car being stolen. Or a story about violent crime against someone we've never met. And that's what the statistics do show - there are disproportionately far more angry people than actual victims. We're getting outraged because we hear regular stories about unfair things happening to people we've never met. And I'm not suggesting these events don't matter just because they're happening to others. But it is incorrect to conflate what are effectively random and unlikely events happening to strangers as some sort of unacceptable level of threat to ourselves. This is a challenge rooted in human nature that I don't pretend to have any solution to. Nevertheless, I think it's fair to reject any of this as an excuse for outrage or the vigilantism that Citizen promotes.

jfengel 5y ago

If the "widely apparent increase in police apathy" is what's causing crime to go down, let's get more of it. If that provokes an increase in vigilantism, then the police will have something to be less apathetic about. Arrest the vigilantes.