4 ms·

I want a Star Trek TNG style utopia.

buzzert 5y ago
If scarcity is eliminated (with technology like the replicator), we won’t need cryptocurrency or any currency at all. I always wondered how much is The Federation actually involved in people’s lives. With no businesses to regulate, it really seems like their government is almost entirely consumed with Starfleet affairs (i.e., diplomacy with other non-federation peoples).
- hinkley 5y ago
  Star Trek spent a lot of time dealing with scarcity problems for a show about people who don't get paid a salary. Waste is a problem that has its own friction built into it. As long as waste costs you something, you have some greater incentive to end it. Until we have some better way to prevent waste, the opposite of scarcity is excess, not satiation. There are not an infinite number of things, and there are not an infinite number of places to externalize the consequences without feeling them. On a ship in the literal middle of nowhere, scarcity is still breathing down your neck at every turn, and there is a strong group incentive to controlling waste, otherwise everybody dies. I'm not sure the STNG utopia plays out the same way on inhabited worlds.
- aeternum 5y ago
  Is it possible to completely eliminate scarcity though? Sure it is for everyday things but there will always be scarcity. Even if we can replicate entire planets, someone will want to own the original earth. Also no matter how good our simulations get, there will likely still be demand for the world's oldest profession (along with attempts to regulate it).
- munificent 5y ago
  We will never achieve utopia by elimination of scarcity. The most valuable commodity in the world is power: the ability to get others to do what you want. Even if all you want them to do is leave you alone, it still requires you to have power to prevent them from coercing you. Power is always relative. Being a millionaire does not give you unbridled liberty if everyone around you is a billionaire. Thus there is a natural incentive to never have enough. It's always useful to have more if for no other reason than to prevent bad people who would harm you from having it instead. This means there is a natural incentive to create scarcity for others. Good culture and institutions can mitigate this but there is no natural stable equilibrium where we can all automatically live in peace without effort.
  - jude- 5y ago
    Maybe the only way everyone can have all the power they want (or at least the perception of having it) is to build the Matrix, put the power-hungry people in it, and make it so they only ever interact with AIs.
spockz 5y ago
For that to happen we need virtually endless resources. Do mind though that in Star Trek throughout the federation currency/status still exists in the form of honour and scientific/military accomplishments.
mcguire 5y ago
To paraphrase Alan Perlis, would you like a lollipop with that?
at_a_remove 5y ago
The Federation as depicted only looks like a utopia if you are easily pacified and lack ambition. Those with goals are lured into academia or Starfleet. However, they still won't give you big replicators. And genetic engineering, well ... if you stop and think about it, they have a secret group of genetic engineers designed to make cross-species hybrids happen, without getting too close to the prohibitions left behind by the Eugenics Wars. Want land of your own? Umm ... What about starting off on your own planet? Ask the Maquis how well that worked out. And of course you don't get to wirehead it. They'll pry you out of the holodeck whether you like it or not, even if you do your best work there. Goodness knows what kind of social engineering goes into keeping everyone so tractable.

If scarcity is eliminated (with technology like the replicator), we won’t need cryptocurrency or any currency at all. I always wondered how much is The Federation actually involved in people’s lives. With no businesses to regulate, it really seems like their government is almost entirely consumed with Starfleet affairs (i.e., diplomacy with other non-federation peoples).

hinkley 5y ago
Star Trek spent a lot of time dealing with scarcity problems for a show about people who don't get paid a salary. Waste is a problem that has its own friction built into it. As long as waste costs you something, you have some greater incentive to end it. Until we have some better way to prevent waste, the opposite of scarcity is excess, not satiation. There are not an infinite number of things, and there are not an infinite number of places to externalize the consequences without feeling them. On a ship in the literal middle of nowhere, scarcity is still breathing down your neck at every turn, and there is a strong group incentive to controlling waste, otherwise everybody dies. I'm not sure the STNG utopia plays out the same way on inhabited worlds.
aeternum 5y ago
Is it possible to completely eliminate scarcity though? Sure it is for everyday things but there will always be scarcity. Even if we can replicate entire planets, someone will want to own the original earth. Also no matter how good our simulations get, there will likely still be demand for the world's oldest profession (along with attempts to regulate it).
munificent 5y ago
We will never achieve utopia by elimination of scarcity. The most valuable commodity in the world is power: the ability to get others to do what you want. Even if all you want them to do is leave you alone, it still requires you to have power to prevent them from coercing you. Power is always relative. Being a millionaire does not give you unbridled liberty if everyone around you is a billionaire. Thus there is a natural incentive to never have enough. It's always useful to have more if for no other reason than to prevent bad people who would harm you from having it instead. This means there is a natural incentive to create scarcity for others. Good culture and institutions can mitigate this but there is no natural stable equilibrium where we can all automatically live in peace without effort.
- jude- 5y ago
  Maybe the only way everyone can have all the power they want (or at least the perception of having it) is to build the Matrix, put the power-hungry people in it, and make it so they only ever interact with AIs.

spockz 5y ago

For that to happen we need virtually endless resources. Do mind though that in Star Trek throughout the federation currency/status still exists in the form of honour and scientific/military accomplishments.

mcguire 5y ago

To paraphrase Alan Perlis, would you like a lollipop with that?

at_a_remove 5y ago

The Federation as depicted only looks like a utopia if you are easily pacified and lack ambition. Those with goals are lured into academia or Starfleet. However, they still won't give you big replicators. And genetic engineering, well ... if you stop and think about it, they have a secret group of genetic engineers designed to make cross-species hybrids happen, without getting too close to the prohibitions left behind by the Eugenics Wars. Want land of your own? Umm ... What about starting off on your own planet? Ask the Maquis how well that worked out. And of course you don't get to wirehead it. They'll pry you out of the holodeck whether you like it or not, even if you do your best work there. Goodness knows what kind of social engineering goes into keeping everyone so tractable.