5 ms·

Wild that Apple/Google take a larger cut than Twitter. That's some mighty impressive rent seeking.

by revel 5y ago

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
echelon 5y ago
And the DOJ needs to break it up. If we continue to trend in this direction, Apple and Google will own 30% of all commerce in America. It's not okay, and it isn't legal. The DOJ hasn't been focused enough to shut them down. The simple fix is to disallow app stores and "pay with Apple/Google". But if if it requires that the companies are broken into pieces, so be it. If you're running a startup today, how on earth do you rationalize competing with these absurd giants? They're eating our lunch, and the only reason they can do so is monopoly power. I realize that Apple and Google employees and stockholders may have different views, but this isn't an equitable or healthy market.
- enos_feedler 5y ago
  You rationalize it by asking: am I competing with Apple or building on top of them? Does my business exist to steal share from Apple, or does by business exist _because_ of Apple. If its the former, you find ways of not “feeding the beast” to serve your growing share. Airbnb turned off Google ads. Snap built Spectacles. Facebook built Portal. Spotify built Car Thing. If its the later, you bite the bullet and chalk it up to business expenses. You appreciate the wonderful world you do business and grow by innovating on top of the platform ie) more apps, more app features, etc. This is the path of Twitter. Or you can choose to be bitter, which is the path of Epic, Match group, etc. In the end these are the losers, IMO
  - wayneftw 5y ago
    > In the end these are the losers, IMO. Apple built their business on the capitalist platform of this country. If the other businesses and people in this country decide that Apple is doing wrong then we will basically flip that right on its lid. It's up to the courts now. Apple is getting attacked from many different angles and they'll definitely lose some degree of control eventually.
    - enos_feedler 5y ago
      I actually don’t believe any of these attacks will amount to much. Even in a scenario where some nudge of change is required, Apple probably has about 5 different “next moves” to mitigate any effects.
      - wayneftw 5y ago
        Maybe. We'll see! The point is that if Apple chooses to do business in our country, they'll follow our rules. Nobody is forever in debt to Apple for starting an app store. The fight can continue infinitely since we can change the rules as we see fit to.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - rebelos 5y ago
    What the hell kind of argument is this? This sounds like what the mafia would say if they were in control of the smartphone ecosystem. The free market isn't setting the fees that Apple and Google are charging because consumers aren't aware of them (and developers are prohibited from making them aware). It's a racket.
    - enos_feedler 5y ago
      Funny because this is my argument and I have zero control of the smartphone ecosystem. I have zero interest or investment in backing any kind of mafia. It just makes sense to me. If Nintendo can build an ecosystem of hw, sw, 1st party games and charge a 30% revenue share, why can’t Apple?
      - Nullabillity 5y ago
        Should Nintendo be able to?
        enos_feedler 5y ago
        Yes
        Nullabillity 5y ago
        Why? Because Apple is currently able to?
  - bachmeier 5y ago
    > You appreciate the wonderful world you do business and grow by innovating on top of the platform And what happens when "the platform" demands 95% of the revenue? Just go to one of the hundreds of competing platforms? You can debate the empirics of a particular market intervention, but your statement makes sense only in a world of perfectly competitive platforms.
    - enos_feedler 5y ago
      Actually it has nothing to do with competitive platforms for developers. All that matters is that Android and iOS compete with each other, which they do tremendously. From a developer standpoint, they simply decide to start a business or not, knowing the expenses of doing so. Whether you are a new company, or any existing one like Twitter, you can do the math. Look at the costs and ROI. It is worth noting the platform fees have never gone up, only down.
  - echelon 5y ago
    > You rationalize it by asking: am I competing with Apple or building on top of them? You have no choice but to build on the illegal monopoly that is Apple. At least not until the DOJ breaks the company up for abusing our industry. Chip foundries need to start locking hardware if they don't start getting subscription revenue. (Isn't that a dumb idea?) Or maybe ISPs should do deep packet inspection and make you pay more for Apple traffic. This is what Apple and Google have done to freedom of computing!
    - enos_feedler 5y ago
      How do you know chip foundries aren’t being paid subscription revenue from companies like Apple already? I am pretty sure they are tied up in very large scale commitments over time. Effectively the same thing. Qualcomm charges pretty hefty licensing fees for Apple to use its modem technology. And they scale it based on the price of the phone, not a fixed amount, just like the App Store does. We act like there is something so wrong here but its just business. Everyone needs to take a chill pill
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

Wild that Apple/Google take a larger cut than Twitter. That's some mighty impressive rent seeking.

by revel 5y ago

Wild that Apple/Google take a larger cut than Twitter. That's some mighty impressive rent seeking.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

echelon 5y ago

And the DOJ needs to break it up. If we continue to trend in this direction, Apple and Google will own 30% of all commerce in America. It's not okay, and it isn't legal. The DOJ hasn't been focused enough to shut them down. The simple fix is to disallow app stores and "pay with Apple/Google". But if if it requires that the companies are broken into pieces, so be it. If you're running a startup today, how on earth do you rationalize competing with these absurd giants? They're eating our lunch, and the only reason they can do so is monopoly power. I realize that Apple and Google employees and stockholders may have different views, but this isn't an equitable or healthy market.

enos_feedler 5y ago
You rationalize it by asking: am I competing with Apple or building on top of them? Does my business exist to steal share from Apple, or does by business exist _because_ of Apple. If its the former, you find ways of not “feeding the beast” to serve your growing share. Airbnb turned off Google ads. Snap built Spectacles. Facebook built Portal. Spotify built Car Thing. If its the later, you bite the bullet and chalk it up to business expenses. You appreciate the wonderful world you do business and grow by innovating on top of the platform ie) more apps, more app features, etc. This is the path of Twitter. Or you can choose to be bitter, which is the path of Epic, Match group, etc. In the end these are the losers, IMO
- wayneftw 5y ago
  > In the end these are the losers, IMO. Apple built their business on the capitalist platform of this country. If the other businesses and people in this country decide that Apple is doing wrong then we will basically flip that right on its lid. It's up to the courts now. Apple is getting attacked from many different angles and they'll definitely lose some degree of control eventually.
  - enos_feedler 5y ago
    I actually don’t believe any of these attacks will amount to much. Even in a scenario where some nudge of change is required, Apple probably has about 5 different “next moves” to mitigate any effects.
    - wayneftw 5y ago
      Maybe. We'll see! The point is that if Apple chooses to do business in our country, they'll follow our rules. Nobody is forever in debt to Apple for starting an app store. The fight can continue infinitely since we can change the rules as we see fit to.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- rebelos 5y ago
  What the hell kind of argument is this? This sounds like what the mafia would say if they were in control of the smartphone ecosystem. The free market isn't setting the fees that Apple and Google are charging because consumers aren't aware of them (and developers are prohibited from making them aware). It's a racket.
  - enos_feedler 5y ago
    Funny because this is my argument and I have zero control of the smartphone ecosystem. I have zero interest or investment in backing any kind of mafia. It just makes sense to me. If Nintendo can build an ecosystem of hw, sw, 1st party games and charge a 30% revenue share, why can’t Apple?
    - Nullabillity 5y ago
      Should Nintendo be able to?
      - enos_feedler 5y ago
        Yes
        Nullabillity 5y ago
        Why? Because Apple is currently able to?
- bachmeier 5y ago
  > You appreciate the wonderful world you do business and grow by innovating on top of the platform And what happens when "the platform" demands 95% of the revenue? Just go to one of the hundreds of competing platforms? You can debate the empirics of a particular market intervention, but your statement makes sense only in a world of perfectly competitive platforms.
  - enos_feedler 5y ago
    Actually it has nothing to do with competitive platforms for developers. All that matters is that Android and iOS compete with each other, which they do tremendously. From a developer standpoint, they simply decide to start a business or not, knowing the expenses of doing so. Whether you are a new company, or any existing one like Twitter, you can do the math. Look at the costs and ROI. It is worth noting the platform fees have never gone up, only down.
- echelon 5y ago
  > You rationalize it by asking: am I competing with Apple or building on top of them? You have no choice but to build on the illegal monopoly that is Apple. At least not until the DOJ breaks the company up for abusing our industry. Chip foundries need to start locking hardware if they don't start getting subscription revenue. (Isn't that a dumb idea?) Or maybe ISPs should do deep packet inspection and make you pay more for Apple traffic. This is what Apple and Google have done to freedom of computing!
  - enos_feedler 5y ago
    How do you know chip foundries aren’t being paid subscription revenue from companies like Apple already? I am pretty sure they are tied up in very large scale commitments over time. Effectively the same thing. Qualcomm charges pretty hefty licensing fees for Apple to use its modem technology. And they scale it based on the price of the phone, not a fixed amount, just like the App Store does. We act like there is something so wrong here but its just business. Everyone needs to take a chill pill
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]