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Like the Toyota Yaris and Fiat 500?

by Dah00n 5y ago

tmh88j 5y ago
Yes, compared to cars even a decade ago modern cars are very bloated. Have you seen an original 500 from the 50's/60's or 70's? They weighed around 1100 lbs. A modern base trim Fiat 500 weighs around 2400 lbs. We all realize it's due to safety, but a lot of sports cars have gotten progressively less fun as a result. The M3 is no longer a small nimble sedan. It's larger than the 5 series was from only 2 generations ago. That's all he's pointing out.
- Dah00n 5y ago
  Well then I have to disagree. A motorcycle helmet is not bloat compared to wearing a sock on your head. Sure an old car might be more fun but safety isn't bloat. AC units are.
  - tmh88j 5y ago
    I already acknowledged the size increase is due to safety. It's not an opinion that modern cars are physically larger and heavier than they were only a few generations ago. There's nothing to disagree with. The M3 (now called M4) has become an entirely different class of vehicle. 2021 G80 M4 length: 189.1″, width: 74.3″, curb weight: 3,840 to 3,890 lbs 2011 E92 M3 length: 180.4 to 181.8″, width: 71 to 71.5″, curb weight: 3,704 2001 E46 M3 length: 176.8", width: 70.1", curb weight: 3415 lbs. 2021 M5 length: 196.4″, width: 74.9″, curb weight: 4,345 lbs 2010 M5 length: 191.5, width: 72.7, curb weight: 4,012 2001 M5 length: 188.4″, width: 70.9″, curb weight: 4,024 lbs
    - lovegoblin 5y ago
      The contention is with your use of "bloat", which implies that the extra size is useless, or at least not worthwhile.
      - tmh88j 5y ago
        The 3/4 series grew in size so much that they introduced the 1/2 series to fill the void of a small coupe. They didn't have to increase the physical dimensions by over a foot in length and nearly half a foot in width. It completely changed the driving dynamics. So, yes, it was absolutely is not worthwhile considering they decided to make a replacement for it after realizing that they alienated a lot of enthusiasts.
benlivengood 5y ago
Both 500 pounds heavier than an 80's civic.
- Dah00n 5y ago
  And 500% higher risk of death. You might call that bloat but to me that is like saying a good quality motorcycle helmet is just a bloated hoodie or cap.
FridayoLeary 5y ago
A great case study. The Fiat looks respectably small until you see the original which looks like one of those cozy coupes that they sell for toddlers. The comparison is sobering. Not only that, but in the interior too, the controls and dials are beautifully neat and thin in contrast to the modern version.

Like the Toyota Yaris and Fiat 500?

by Dah00n 5y ago

Like the Toyota Yaris and Fiat 500?

Yes, compared to cars even a decade ago modern cars are very bloated. Have you seen an original 500 from the 50's/60's or 70's? They weighed around 1100 lbs. A modern base trim Fiat 500 weighs around 2400 lbs. We all realize it's due to safety, but a lot of sports cars have gotten progressively less fun as a result. The M3 is no longer a small nimble sedan. It's larger than the 5 series was from only 2 generations ago. That's all he's pointing out.

Dah00n 5y ago
Well then I have to disagree. A motorcycle helmet is not bloat compared to wearing a sock on your head. Sure an old car might be more fun but safety isn't bloat. AC units are.
- tmh88j 5y ago
  I already acknowledged the size increase is due to safety. It's not an opinion that modern cars are physically larger and heavier than they were only a few generations ago. There's nothing to disagree with. The M3 (now called M4) has become an entirely different class of vehicle. 2021 G80 M4 length: 189.1″, width: 74.3″, curb weight: 3,840 to 3,890 lbs 2011 E92 M3 length: 180.4 to 181.8″, width: 71 to 71.5″, curb weight: 3,704 2001 E46 M3 length: 176.8", width: 70.1", curb weight: 3415 lbs. 2021 M5 length: 196.4″, width: 74.9″, curb weight: 4,345 lbs 2010 M5 length: 191.5, width: 72.7, curb weight: 4,012 2001 M5 length: 188.4″, width: 70.9″, curb weight: 4,024 lbs
  - lovegoblin 5y ago
    The contention is with your use of "bloat", which implies that the extra size is useless, or at least not worthwhile.
    - tmh88j 5y ago
      The 3/4 series grew in size so much that they introduced the 1/2 series to fill the void of a small coupe. They didn't have to increase the physical dimensions by over a foot in length and nearly half a foot in width. It completely changed the driving dynamics. So, yes, it was absolutely is not worthwhile considering they decided to make a replacement for it after realizing that they alienated a lot of enthusiasts.

benlivengood 5y ago

Both 500 pounds heavier than an 80's civic.

Dah00n 5y ago
And 500% higher risk of death. You might call that bloat but to me that is like saying a good quality motorcycle helmet is just a bloated hoodie or cap.

FridayoLeary 5y ago

A great case study. The Fiat looks respectably small until you see the original which looks like one of those cozy coupes that they sell for toddlers. The comparison is sobering. Not only that, but in the interior too, the controls and dials are beautifully neat and thin in contrast to the modern version.