4 ms·

Pickups are convenient any many (probably most) owners have them for good reasons, but living in a Midwestern city I run into so many "bad" pickup drivers it's

Pickups are convenient any many (probably most) owners have them for good reasons, but living in a Midwestern city I run into so many "bad" pickup drivers it's hard not to get frustrated with them generally. A lot of people around here have big, tall pickups with tiny beds that they drive very aggressively. They rarely use them for anything I couldn't put in my Fit (I've known several people who would never haul dirt or the like because they don't want the truck to get dirty). Many modern pickups have a high front grill that is dangerous for pedestrians and designed to be intimidating. It sucks to constantly run into trucks like that being driving fast and aggressively when I'm just trying to walk to the store. I know that's a minority of trucks, but the worst cars by me are invariably pickups and it's hard not to generalize it.

jacurtis 5y ago
> Many modern pickups have a high front grill that is dangerous for pedestrians and designed to be intimidating I get what you are trying to say, but had to mention that all front grills of vehicles are dangerous to pedestrians. It's just a bit of a strawman argument to say "Well when I hit people with my car it will be worse if I own a truck, so I'm going to own a Prius so that the pedestrians roll right off".
- ambicapter 5y ago
  How is that a strawman? You will roll off a 2 foot prius grille and you will get your skull caved in and your body ejected twenty feet backwards onto asphalt with a 4-5 foot high pick up grille if you get hit.
- robotresearcher 5y ago
  The probable outcomes of these are very different, particularly at low speeds downtown where pedestrians tend to be. Why not pay attention to that?
- brewdad 5y ago
  You are right that the front grill of any car is going to be bad news for a pedestrian. The issue I have with the higher front grills is the front blind spot they create. https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/14/21065319/suv-truck-front-blindspot-children-injury-death-wthr-13 https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/14/21065319/suv-truck-front-...
- wiremaus 5y ago
  It's arguably not a strawman argument in the slightest. There have been changes made to these trucks that do a great job of looking aesthetically "tough and mean" and selling trucks, while also making them more dangerous to other road users: not just to pedestrians, but to other cars via the bumper overlap issue. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-11/the-dangerous-rise-of-the-supersized-pickup-truck https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-11/the-dange...
- dashundchen 5y ago
  Trucks have been getting taller, with higher hoods, steeper windshields and worse forward visibility for the same capability. Not to mention more common in the US in general. https://twitter.com/BrentToderian/status/1338051592856092672 https://twitter.com/BrentToderian/status/1338051592856092672 https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-11/the-dangerous-rise-of-the-supersized-pickup-truck https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-11/the-dange... https://theweek.com/articles/929196/case-against-american-truck-bloat https://theweek.com/articles/929196/case-against-american-tr... As a cyclist and pedestrian in the city it's a nightmare - you can never tell if the driver can actually see you vs sedans and hatchbacks at your eye level. Unsurprisingly pedestrian deaths from drivers have spiked in the past few years.
  - dgfitz 5y ago
    As a cyclist and pedestrian I always assume nobody sees me. Full stop. What they are driving doesn't matter.
- calabin 5y ago
  I think the argument is less that the grill on a truck is especially bad in the case of a pedestrian collision, and more that the limited forward visibility provided by a high front grill results in a greater likelihood of not seeing pedestrians directly in your vehicle's path.
  - mrwh 5y ago
    Yeah, it's _both_. More likely to hit someone and more likely to kill them when hit.
- 29083011397778 5y ago
  I went for a walk out in my suburb one night. If you can show me a single Honda Civic or Mazda sedan where the hood starts at 5' off the ground, I will bow down and say you have a point. Note that I mean the grill ended, and hood started, at the top of my shoulders. I'm six feet tall; how the hell has this happened, and why is it considered acceptable? Until then, I (and presumably many others) will view trucks as objectively more dangerous, and contributing to a less walkable city. I recognize going under a vehicle is a bad time regardless of how tall it is, but my girlfriend can't hide right in front of a Toyota RAV-4 or Audi Q5.

jacurtis 5y ago

> Many modern pickups have a high front grill that is dangerous for pedestrians and designed to be intimidating I get what you are trying to say, but had to mention that all front grills of vehicles are dangerous to pedestrians. It's just a bit of a strawman argument to say "Well when I hit people with my car it will be worse if I own a truck, so I'm going to own a Prius so that the pedestrians roll right off".

ambicapter 5y ago
How is that a strawman? You will roll off a 2 foot prius grille and you will get your skull caved in and your body ejected twenty feet backwards onto asphalt with a 4-5 foot high pick up grille if you get hit.
robotresearcher 5y ago
The probable outcomes of these are very different, particularly at low speeds downtown where pedestrians tend to be. Why not pay attention to that?
brewdad 5y ago
You are right that the front grill of any car is going to be bad news for a pedestrian. The issue I have with the higher front grills is the front blind spot they create. https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/14/21065319/suv-truck-front-blindspot-children-injury-death-wthr-13 https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/14/21065319/suv-truck-front-...
wiremaus 5y ago
It's arguably not a strawman argument in the slightest. There have been changes made to these trucks that do a great job of looking aesthetically "tough and mean" and selling trucks, while also making them more dangerous to other road users: not just to pedestrians, but to other cars via the bumper overlap issue. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-11/the-dangerous-rise-of-the-supersized-pickup-truck https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-11/the-dange...
dashundchen 5y ago
Trucks have been getting taller, with higher hoods, steeper windshields and worse forward visibility for the same capability. Not to mention more common in the US in general. https://twitter.com/BrentToderian/status/1338051592856092672 https://twitter.com/BrentToderian/status/1338051592856092672 https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-11/the-dangerous-rise-of-the-supersized-pickup-truck https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-11/the-dange... https://theweek.com/articles/929196/case-against-american-truck-bloat https://theweek.com/articles/929196/case-against-american-tr... As a cyclist and pedestrian in the city it's a nightmare - you can never tell if the driver can actually see you vs sedans and hatchbacks at your eye level. Unsurprisingly pedestrian deaths from drivers have spiked in the past few years.
- dgfitz 5y ago
  As a cyclist and pedestrian I always assume nobody sees me. Full stop. What they are driving doesn't matter.
calabin 5y ago
I think the argument is less that the grill on a truck is especially bad in the case of a pedestrian collision, and more that the limited forward visibility provided by a high front grill results in a greater likelihood of not seeing pedestrians directly in your vehicle's path.
- mrwh 5y ago
  Yeah, it's _both_. More likely to hit someone and more likely to kill them when hit.
29083011397778 5y ago
I went for a walk out in my suburb one night. If you can show me a single Honda Civic or Mazda sedan where the hood starts at 5' off the ground, I will bow down and say you have a point. Note that I mean the grill ended, and hood started, at the top of my shoulders. I'm six feet tall; how the hell has this happened, and why is it considered acceptable? Until then, I (and presumably many others) will view trucks as objectively more dangerous, and contributing to a less walkable city. I recognize going under a vehicle is a bad time regardless of how tall it is, but my girlfriend can't hide right in front of a Toyota RAV-4 or Audi Q5.