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From what I've read it seems like you generally seem to have Freenode's interests at heart, but this seems like a complete communication failure. Most channels

by tapoxi 5y ago

From what I've read it seems like you generally seem to have Freenode's interests at heart, but this seems like a complete communication failure. Most channels I've been a part of have moved to Libera Chat, so I don't think Freenode in its current form can recover from this. Maybe you should consider incorporating it as a nonprofit and potentially a technology switch to Matrix? It would be nice to have a homeserver that people can rely on and isn't Matrix.org.

hhvn 5y ago
One of the main points of matrix is that every server should be compatible and form a federation with others. What is the point of moving people onto a specific server? With IRC freenode has a control structure that can enforce their rules/guidelines, this breaks with matrix.
- Macha 5y ago
  I think the big concerns with matrix.org centralisation are: * If matrix.org went away tomorrow, is there enough capacity in the rest of matrix for users to migrate to. * Federation only exists when a channel has users from multiple homeservers on it - how many small/medium channels only exist on matrix.org? * People's identities are tied to their home server. You would be userfoo:matrix.org - if matrix.org went away, how would you find all your contacts again? Points 1 and 2 would be addressed by more capacity and more independent homeservers, point 3 would require some sort of multi-homing.
  - Arathorn 5y ago
    1. About 30% of the visible users on Matrix are on Matrix.org. So, yes. 2. Almost all public rooms seem to have users from other servers. 3. Account portability/multihoming is in the works at https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/pull/2787 https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/pull/2787
Syonyk 5y ago
> * Maybe you should consider incorporating it as a nonprofit and potentially a technology switch to Matrix? * Please don't. I like Matrix, I use it, but it's not IRC, and it's far, far more resource heavy (both in homeserver and in clients) than IRC is. You can run IRC on ancient gutless wonders, and it uses almost no resources. Matrix, especially the flagship Element client, is a resource hog. Start throwing rooms with thousands of users in, and it requires an awful lot of resources. Keep IRC IRC.
- tapoxi 5y ago
  IRC stays IRC, but how else does a network like freenode survive a giant schism? They need to differentiate from libera chat. Matrix has problems, but as the ecosystem grows we'll start to see improvements.
  - Macha 5y ago
    If Libera.chat gets 60% of the users, freenode would still be the second largest IRC network. I think there will be a enough inertia among people/projects who don't follow hacker news or internet trends for the remainder of freenode to retain an audience. The bigger question is if they retain enough server sponsors, who may be paying more attention. They might defect to libera.chat or OFTC, or just decide the whole business is not worth their while.
  - sillysaurusx 5y ago
    Why wouldn’t freenode survive? The people that want to go can go. The people that stay, stay.
  - ique 5y ago
    I’ve been using Matrix with Riot, now Element, for 5 years and it’s only ever gotten worse. You really shouldn’t expect to see improvements.
    - Syonyk 5y ago
      My main problem with Matrix (which I'm willing to work around because of the benefits of a federated, self hosted, encrypted chat system) is that it seems to assume everyone has a lot of high end, modern hardware, at all ends of the system. Synapse is fine until someone on the homeserver starts joining a bunch of rooms, then you'd better have a lot of RAM for it. And Element, while a perfectly good client, is the standard "bloated electron app" option that chews 700MB of RAM and lags, entering text, on a Raspberry Pi 4. There are alternatives, but they tend to have weird issues, at least last time I messed with them, in how they handle some of the corner cases of encryption.

by tapoxi 5y ago

hhvn 5y ago

One of the main points of matrix is that every server should be compatible and form a federation with others. What is the point of moving people onto a specific server? With IRC freenode has a control structure that can enforce their rules/guidelines, this breaks with matrix.

Macha 5y ago
I think the big concerns with matrix.org centralisation are: * If matrix.org went away tomorrow, is there enough capacity in the rest of matrix for users to migrate to. * Federation only exists when a channel has users from multiple homeservers on it - how many small/medium channels only exist on matrix.org? * People's identities are tied to their home server. You would be userfoo:matrix.org - if matrix.org went away, how would you find all your contacts again? Points 1 and 2 would be addressed by more capacity and more independent homeservers, point 3 would require some sort of multi-homing.
- Arathorn 5y ago
  1. About 30% of the visible users on Matrix are on Matrix.org. So, yes. 2. Almost all public rooms seem to have users from other servers. 3. Account portability/multihoming is in the works at https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/pull/2787 https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/pull/2787

Syonyk 5y ago

> * Maybe you should consider incorporating it as a nonprofit and potentially a technology switch to Matrix? * Please don't. I like Matrix, I use it, but it's not IRC, and it's far, far more resource heavy (both in homeserver and in clients) than IRC is. You can run IRC on ancient gutless wonders, and it uses almost no resources. Matrix, especially the flagship Element client, is a resource hog. Start throwing rooms with thousands of users in, and it requires an awful lot of resources. Keep IRC IRC.

tapoxi 5y ago
IRC stays IRC, but how else does a network like freenode survive a giant schism? They need to differentiate from libera chat. Matrix has problems, but as the ecosystem grows we'll start to see improvements.
- Macha 5y ago
  If Libera.chat gets 60% of the users, freenode would still be the second largest IRC network. I think there will be a enough inertia among people/projects who don't follow hacker news or internet trends for the remainder of freenode to retain an audience. The bigger question is if they retain enough server sponsors, who may be paying more attention. They might defect to libera.chat or OFTC, or just decide the whole business is not worth their while.
- sillysaurusx 5y ago
  Why wouldn’t freenode survive? The people that want to go can go. The people that stay, stay.
- ique 5y ago
  I’ve been using Matrix with Riot, now Element, for 5 years and it’s only ever gotten worse. You really shouldn’t expect to see improvements.
  - Syonyk 5y ago
    My main problem with Matrix (which I'm willing to work around because of the benefits of a federated, self hosted, encrypted chat system) is that it seems to assume everyone has a lot of high end, modern hardware, at all ends of the system. Synapse is fine until someone on the homeserver starts joining a bunch of rooms, then you'd better have a lot of RAM for it. And Element, while a perfectly good client, is the standard "bloated electron app" option that chews 700MB of RAM and lags, entering text, on a Raspberry Pi 4. There are alternatives, but they tend to have weird issues, at least last time I messed with them, in how they handle some of the corner cases of encryption.