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Has politics ever not been post-truth? To win a debate you just need to sway the audience. It has been known since ancient times that's not limited to presentin

Has politics ever not been post-truth? To win a debate you just need to sway the audience. It has been known since ancient times that's not limited to presenting facts.

secstate 5y ago
I think the information age has introduced a lot of people to the public square who've no idea what rhetoric is.
- ryandrake 5y ago
  We crossed this threshold almost 20 years ago during the GWB administration. A senior administration official, believed to be Karl Rove, responded to a reporter: “People like you are still living in what we call the reality-based community. You believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality. That’s not the way the world really works anymore. We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you are studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors, and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.” [1][2] 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality-based_community https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality-based_community 2: https://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/faith-certainty-and-the-presidency-of-george-w-bush.html https://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/faith-certainty-...
  - _underfl0w_ 5y ago
    This is an absolutely mind-blowing quote, thanks for sharing.
qalmakka 5y ago
The only difference is that now echo chambers and communication speeds are so fast and far reaching that every kind of lie can spread like wildfire in seconds, with basically no consequence of sort. Now you can close yourself in a bubble without ever having to confront any view you do not like. I think it's kinda like how technology hasn't changed the reasons behind wars, or their intrinsic nature, but has definitely changed their impact and their scale. You can now lie yourself into and out of basically anything, without ever having to face the reality of what you are saying or suffering basically any consequence. I think that in one way or another, our society and political structures will have to evolve in order to take this into account.

Has politics ever not been post-truth? To win a debate you just need to sway the audience. It has been known since ancient times that's not limited to presenting facts.

secstate 5y ago

I think the information age has introduced a lot of people to the public square who've no idea what rhetoric is.

ryandrake 5y ago
We crossed this threshold almost 20 years ago during the GWB administration. A senior administration official, believed to be Karl Rove, responded to a reporter: “People like you are still living in what we call the reality-based community. You believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality. That’s not the way the world really works anymore. We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you are studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors, and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.” [1][2] 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality-based_community https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality-based_community 2: https://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/faith-certainty-and-the-presidency-of-george-w-bush.html https://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/faith-certainty-...
- _underfl0w_ 5y ago
  This is an absolutely mind-blowing quote, thanks for sharing.

qalmakka 5y ago

The only difference is that now echo chambers and communication speeds are so fast and far reaching that every kind of lie can spread like wildfire in seconds, with basically no consequence of sort. Now you can close yourself in a bubble without ever having to confront any view you do not like. I think it's kinda like how technology hasn't changed the reasons behind wars, or their intrinsic nature, but has definitely changed their impact and their scale. You can now lie yourself into and out of basically anything, without ever having to face the reality of what you are saying or suffering basically any consequence. I think that in one way or another, our society and political structures will have to evolve in order to take this into account.