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It is absurd on its face to have developing countries burn oil and (usually low-grade) coal to manufacture huge battery packs (and all the other electronic item

by ppf 5y ago

It is absurd on its face to have developing countries burn oil and (usually low-grade) coal to manufacture huge battery packs (and all the other electronic items that our Western lives dictate), all so we can claim we live CO2-neutral lives. You might be right, but EVs are not the solution. The solution is realising that we just can't use so much energy.

js8 5y ago
Actually, EVs are (at least part of) a solution. Electric motors are more efficient than internal combustion engines, and even more efficient if you also count all the oil extraction, processing and transport. Of course we need to move from burning coal too, but EVs are absolutely part of that.
- ppf 5y ago
  From a well-to-wheels standpoint, EVs are barely more efficient when you take into account power generation, transmission, and storage losses. Obviously, we want our EVs powered from renewable energy. In that case, unless we go nuclear, in my opinion energy will become that much more expensive that using it to transport ourselves in massive, heavy wheeled metal boxes will be out of the question. I'm sure you'll object to this, so I'll start by pointing out that most of our "renewable" energy sources are made in China using brown coal and awful working conditions.
  - js8 5y ago
    I will object to it: https://blog.ucsusa.org/dave-reichmuth/are-electric-vehicles-really-better-for-the-climate-yes-heres-why https://blog.ucsusa.org/dave-reichmuth/are-electric-vehicles...
    - ppf 5y ago
      I'm not sure which part of my previous comment you are actually objecting to. Your article also ignores the manufacturing energy cost of an EV, which is considerable. 88 mpg equivalent for an EV, that requires a huge amount of extra mineral resources and manufacturing energy, is not good enough when the average clapped-out diesel family car here in the UK gets around 60mpg. As I said, they are barely more efficient overall.

by ppf 5y ago

js8 5y ago

Actually, EVs are (at least part of) a solution. Electric motors are more efficient than internal combustion engines, and even more efficient if you also count all the oil extraction, processing and transport. Of course we need to move from burning coal too, but EVs are absolutely part of that.

ppf 5y ago
From a well-to-wheels standpoint, EVs are barely more efficient when you take into account power generation, transmission, and storage losses. Obviously, we want our EVs powered from renewable energy. In that case, unless we go nuclear, in my opinion energy will become that much more expensive that using it to transport ourselves in massive, heavy wheeled metal boxes will be out of the question. I'm sure you'll object to this, so I'll start by pointing out that most of our "renewable" energy sources are made in China using brown coal and awful working conditions.
- js8 5y ago
  I will object to it: https://blog.ucsusa.org/dave-reichmuth/are-electric-vehicles-really-better-for-the-climate-yes-heres-why https://blog.ucsusa.org/dave-reichmuth/are-electric-vehicles...
  - ppf 5y ago
    I'm not sure which part of my previous comment you are actually objecting to. Your article also ignores the manufacturing energy cost of an EV, which is considerable. 88 mpg equivalent for an EV, that requires a huge amount of extra mineral resources and manufacturing energy, is not good enough when the average clapped-out diesel family car here in the UK gets around 60mpg. As I said, they are barely more efficient overall.