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Is the view that this is a problem from memories of lead acid batteries in combustion vehicles? I might be ignorant but I can't see lithium batteries being a bi

Is the view that this is a problem from memories of lead acid batteries in combustion vehicles? I might be ignorant but I can't see lithium batteries being a big problem

mlatu 5y ago
I think this is a viewed as a problem due to the sheer amount of batteries neccessary to equip all those cars. Maybe think less in terms of used lead acid batteries but used car tires instead? though even those are refurbished nowadays.. :shrug:
- Ensorceled 5y ago
  The point is, the lithium will be recycled NOT that lithium batteries are less toxic than lead batteries. Worrying about "dead" lithium batteries is like worrying about "dead" aluminum cans ...
  - cyrksoft 5y ago
    But the article mentions that lithium is not economically viable to recycle.
    - johnthesecure 5y ago
      Tell that to https://li-cycle.com/ https://li-cycle.com/ and https://northvolt.com/revolt/ https://northvolt.com/revolt/
    - meepmorp 5y ago
      Eventually, demand and technological changes will make that not true anymore.
    - natch 5y ago
      Currently, at current scale. I don’t think JB Straubel is an idiot who knows nothing about this. Also there’s that thing about don’t believe everything you read. Ask: Who benefits by the publication of this article?
    - Ensorceled 5y ago
      Right. We disagree with the article.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  Lead acid batteries are heavily recycled, with around 80% of lead used in the US coming from a recycled source, which is surely more than tires many of which end up in landfills or ground into a secondary use not as useful as a tire. Lead acid battery recycling is not always done as a relatively clean, industrial process in other parts of the world.
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
Lead acid batteries are highly recyclable. People just are unable to think rationally about certain toxic substances and assume that they just have to be stored away from everything Yucca Mountain style.
- cyrksoft 5y ago
  The article talks about lithium batteries and says that they are not economocially efficient to recycle so they are not recycled. Given the scale of lithium batteries needed for electric cars (particuarly if they are going to replace internal combustion cars) is going to be probelmatic.
  - swiley 5y ago
    If Mine safety was effectively regulated Lithium battery recycling would probably be economical.
  - natch 5y ago
    The scaling up that is coming should improve the efficiency. Economies of scale.
    - WorldMaker 5y ago
      Yes, most of the oldest EV batteries are still on the road. In general EV batteries have been remaining in "first use" (as car batteries) for longer than early estimates and it will take a few years more before the world sees enough EV batteries that EV battery recycling starts to have a scale that looks economical (compared to just sifting through salt brines of salt lakes).
tpmx 5y ago
~40x more mass per car is one factor.

Is the view that this is a problem from memories of lead acid batteries in combustion vehicles? I might be ignorant but I can't see lithium batteries being a big problem

mlatu 5y ago

I think this is a viewed as a problem due to the sheer amount of batteries neccessary to equip all those cars. Maybe think less in terms of used lead acid batteries but used car tires instead? though even those are refurbished nowadays.. :shrug:

Ensorceled 5y ago
The point is, the lithium will be recycled NOT that lithium batteries are less toxic than lead batteries. Worrying about "dead" lithium batteries is like worrying about "dead" aluminum cans ...
- cyrksoft 5y ago
  But the article mentions that lithium is not economically viable to recycle.
  - johnthesecure 5y ago
    Tell that to https://li-cycle.com/ https://li-cycle.com/ and https://northvolt.com/revolt/ https://northvolt.com/revolt/
  - meepmorp 5y ago
    Eventually, demand and technological changes will make that not true anymore.
  - natch 5y ago
    Currently, at current scale. I don’t think JB Straubel is an idiot who knows nothing about this. Also there’s that thing about don’t believe everything you read. Ask: Who benefits by the publication of this article?
  - Ensorceled 5y ago
    Right. We disagree with the article.
sokoloff 5y ago
Lead acid batteries are heavily recycled, with around 80% of lead used in the US coming from a recycled source, which is surely more than tires many of which end up in landfills or ground into a secondary use not as useful as a tire. Lead acid battery recycling is not always done as a relatively clean, industrial process in other parts of the world.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

Lead acid batteries are highly recyclable. People just are unable to think rationally about certain toxic substances and assume that they just have to be stored away from everything Yucca Mountain style.

cyrksoft 5y ago
The article talks about lithium batteries and says that they are not economocially efficient to recycle so they are not recycled. Given the scale of lithium batteries needed for electric cars (particuarly if they are going to replace internal combustion cars) is going to be probelmatic.
- swiley 5y ago
  If Mine safety was effectively regulated Lithium battery recycling would probably be economical.
- natch 5y ago
  The scaling up that is coming should improve the efficiency. Economies of scale.
  - WorldMaker 5y ago
    Yes, most of the oldest EV batteries are still on the road. In general EV batteries have been remaining in "first use" (as car batteries) for longer than early estimates and it will take a few years more before the world sees enough EV batteries that EV battery recycling starts to have a scale that looks economical (compared to just sifting through salt brines of salt lakes).

tpmx 5y ago

~40x more mass per car is one factor.