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Let's ground all the planes in the world because they enable drug trafficking. You are correct: crypto enables crime. But the solution is to fight hacking, not

Let's ground all the planes in the world because they enable drug trafficking. You are correct: crypto enables crime. But the solution is to fight hacking, not crypto currencies.

kristiandupont 5y ago
I feel that we have yet to see the major benefits from crypto currencies materialize. I've heard many theoretical and philosophical arguments in favor of it. I could easily imagine that, say, people in Venezuela might benefit from it with an unstable official currency but I haven't really heard stories that show that this is happening.
- 627467 5y ago
  You're only a plane ride away from Venezuela, Argentina, Nigeria, etc...
  - 1ris 5y ago
    To see what? People buy groceries with crypto? Are you sure? USD is used for what crypto fanboys think crypto should be used.
- lentil_soup 5y ago
  As a Venezuelan, it's not being used. Why would we go from a volatile currency to another volatile currency that additionally needs access to a computer/smartphone (not everyone has these), it's hard to understand and it's not accepted in any shop? Everyone wants US Dollars
Nursie 5y ago
> Let's ground all the planes in the world because they enable drug trafficking. Let's make absolute pronouncements as if everything in the world is a black and white moral question, rather than assessing things pragmatically. If we ground the planes, some level of drug trafficking will reduce, the knock on effects are that nobody can travel. Pretty serious to the world economy. If we severely restrict the ability to transact large amounts anonymously, as we have been doing in the non-cryptocurrency world for some time, we can impact the ability of criminal ransomware gangs to get paid, and the knock-on negative effects are ... ?
- kcmastrpc 5y ago
  Author opens with a absolute pronouncement and you're gaslighting OP because he did the same thing? > Let's talk about why cryptocurrency is the single factor that created the ransomware plague that is ravaging our healthcare system and public infrastructure.
  - Nursie 5y ago
    Gaslighting? Oh please. > cryptocurrency is the single factor that created the ransomware plague Why is this wrong? Without the ability to get paid like this, are you seriously telling me we'd see this stuff on the same scale? This is also far from the sort of thinking I wanted to point out that the OP is exhibiting. We see it here on HN all the time and it wouldn't surprise me if it comes from coding - "I can think of another situation and if I apply the same rule blindly, doesn't it show that the rule is broken?" The point is we don't have to apply the same rule everywhere in a society, and a rule that doesn't work well in one place can work well and provide value in another. The law is not code. Human society is not a computer model.
  - NovemberWhiskey 5y ago
    Just as a matter of interest, could you please supply a link to the last newsworthy ransomware attack that didn't involve payment in cryptocurrency?
- Zababa 5y ago
  Speaking about drugs, cryptocurrencies have enabled drug marketplaces that are generally quite safe for the buyer (escrow, better quality through reviews). The situation is now way better than buying something on the street. I'm not saying it's a good example of a negative consequence of "restrict the ability to transact large amounts anonymously" since you mention large amounts though.
  - soco 5y ago
    In (many?) places the end consumer can buy some drugs officially and much safer than any darknet review can guarantee.
kreetx 5y ago
I think we should also ban trucks, too, as how else would you steal a TV nowdays. I think what the author of the tweet is missing is that crypto is here to stay and it would be invented again if it didn't exist. (I.e why don't we just ban crime altogether? Oh, wait..)
- hocuspocus 5y ago
  Of course crypto is here to say. That's like saying math is here to say. But the inability to convert imaginary coins into fiat is a political decision away.
  - kreetx 5y ago
    There are other areas that are illegal but don't appear to be going away, like drugs and prostitution. Wouldn't criminalizing crypto just move the entire thing under ground? This would perhaps limit its "market cap", but also removes the ability to regulate and tax it. > Of course crypto is here to say. That's like saying math is here to say. I think banning cryptocurrencies as an activity isn't like math, unless you meant "doing math" as in solving an equation. I.e if by some higher power you could find cryptocurrency operations then these would seize to exist (and be "not here to stay"), while the knowledge of math won't.
    - Nursie 5y ago
      > Wouldn't criminalizing crypto just move the entire thing under ground? It would shrink massively. Cryptocurrency itself is not as base a desire as drugs or prostitution. They are a goal in and of themselves, for people seeking them. Cryptocurrency not so much.
      - kreetx 5y ago
        It would shrink, definitely, but as the other two it wont disappear as it's actually required, both as protection against inflation or also as a fast and no-middlemen way to send money. And for specifically for bitcoin[1] the "goal in itself" is the anti-inflationary part. Nobody wants to lose what they have because somebody else thought that creating new money is a good idea. Putting your cash into other assets such as real estate achieves the same goal, bitcoin is just more convenient. [1] I say "specifically for bitcoin" as what a value of any cryptocurrency is depends on how it's actually coded up (how/when it's created, burnt etc). Not all cryptocurrencies are good for "stores of value".

Let's ground all the planes in the world because they enable drug trafficking. You are correct: crypto enables crime. But the solution is to fight hacking, not crypto currencies.

kristiandupont 5y ago

I feel that we have yet to see the major benefits from crypto currencies materialize. I've heard many theoretical and philosophical arguments in favor of it. I could easily imagine that, say, people in Venezuela might benefit from it with an unstable official currency but I haven't really heard stories that show that this is happening.

627467 5y ago
You're only a plane ride away from Venezuela, Argentina, Nigeria, etc...
- 1ris 5y ago
  To see what? People buy groceries with crypto? Are you sure? USD is used for what crypto fanboys think crypto should be used.
lentil_soup 5y ago
As a Venezuelan, it's not being used. Why would we go from a volatile currency to another volatile currency that additionally needs access to a computer/smartphone (not everyone has these), it's hard to understand and it's not accepted in any shop? Everyone wants US Dollars

Nursie 5y ago

> Let's ground all the planes in the world because they enable drug trafficking. Let's make absolute pronouncements as if everything in the world is a black and white moral question, rather than assessing things pragmatically. If we ground the planes, some level of drug trafficking will reduce, the knock on effects are that nobody can travel. Pretty serious to the world economy. If we severely restrict the ability to transact large amounts anonymously, as we have been doing in the non-cryptocurrency world for some time, we can impact the ability of criminal ransomware gangs to get paid, and the knock-on negative effects are ... ?

kcmastrpc 5y ago
Author opens with a absolute pronouncement and you're gaslighting OP because he did the same thing? > Let's talk about why cryptocurrency is the single factor that created the ransomware plague that is ravaging our healthcare system and public infrastructure.
- Nursie 5y ago
  Gaslighting? Oh please. > cryptocurrency is the single factor that created the ransomware plague Why is this wrong? Without the ability to get paid like this, are you seriously telling me we'd see this stuff on the same scale? This is also far from the sort of thinking I wanted to point out that the OP is exhibiting. We see it here on HN all the time and it wouldn't surprise me if it comes from coding - "I can think of another situation and if I apply the same rule blindly, doesn't it show that the rule is broken?" The point is we don't have to apply the same rule everywhere in a society, and a rule that doesn't work well in one place can work well and provide value in another. The law is not code. Human society is not a computer model.
- NovemberWhiskey 5y ago
  Just as a matter of interest, could you please supply a link to the last newsworthy ransomware attack that didn't involve payment in cryptocurrency?
Zababa 5y ago
Speaking about drugs, cryptocurrencies have enabled drug marketplaces that are generally quite safe for the buyer (escrow, better quality through reviews). The situation is now way better than buying something on the street. I'm not saying it's a good example of a negative consequence of "restrict the ability to transact large amounts anonymously" since you mention large amounts though.
- soco 5y ago
  In (many?) places the end consumer can buy some drugs officially and much safer than any darknet review can guarantee.

kreetx 5y ago

I think we should also ban trucks, too, as how else would you steal a TV nowdays. I think what the author of the tweet is missing is that crypto is here to stay and it would be invented again if it didn't exist. (I.e why don't we just ban crime altogether? Oh, wait..)

hocuspocus 5y ago
Of course crypto is here to say. That's like saying math is here to say. But the inability to convert imaginary coins into fiat is a political decision away.
- kreetx 5y ago
  There are other areas that are illegal but don't appear to be going away, like drugs and prostitution. Wouldn't criminalizing crypto just move the entire thing under ground? This would perhaps limit its "market cap", but also removes the ability to regulate and tax it. > Of course crypto is here to say. That's like saying math is here to say. I think banning cryptocurrencies as an activity isn't like math, unless you meant "doing math" as in solving an equation. I.e if by some higher power you could find cryptocurrency operations then these would seize to exist (and be "not here to stay"), while the knowledge of math won't.
  - Nursie 5y ago
    > Wouldn't criminalizing crypto just move the entire thing under ground? It would shrink massively. Cryptocurrency itself is not as base a desire as drugs or prostitution. They are a goal in and of themselves, for people seeking them. Cryptocurrency not so much.
    - kreetx 5y ago
      It would shrink, definitely, but as the other two it wont disappear as it's actually required, both as protection against inflation or also as a fast and no-middlemen way to send money. And for specifically for bitcoin[1] the "goal in itself" is the anti-inflationary part. Nobody wants to lose what they have because somebody else thought that creating new money is a good idea. Putting your cash into other assets such as real estate achieves the same goal, bitcoin is just more convenient. [1] I say "specifically for bitcoin" as what a value of any cryptocurrency is depends on how it's actually coded up (how/when it's created, burnt etc). Not all cryptocurrencies are good for "stores of value".