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the Land Rover Defender (or old V8 Toyota) might be an option. Been driving Defender this since 2006, and I will never sell it. The car literally hasn't changed

the Land Rover Defender (or old V8 Toyota) might be an option. Been driving Defender this since 2006, and I will never sell it. The car literally hasn't changed its optics since the 80ies and a few dents only give it more "character". I got sick of being ripped off in the garage (and that car is known to never be free of flaws but never is fully broken either - classic British engineering:)) ... I downloaded all explosion charts from RU websites and the parts catalog can be found in popular LR forums for OEM or the much cheaper wholesale parts (10-20x less the price in some cases). It's a learning curve but instead of spending money on in garage (and get ripped off) over the years I invested it in tools and try to repair anything myself. Sometimes I'm back on the road within 24 hours sometimes it takes me a month. Meanwhile I made friends driving similar cars who can help out. Not an option for everybody (space & patience), but I know my car now better than most mechanics. It turned me into a massive engine nerd too and I also got all the diagnostic tools to look at and clear error codes over the OBD-II. If a large 4x4 isn't your cup of tee then a Lotus Elise can result in similar fun. My latest project is a Caterham which I'm building from scratch and hope to have it on the road later this summer (https://www.caterhamcars.com/it https://www.caterhamcars.com/it) Anything battery powered or electric for me would never be an option. People say it's "not so green" but my opinion differs. I think getting the latest model of X every 2-3 years is far more toxic to the environment.

chrisseaton 5y ago
I'm passionate about Defenders (I've commanded a squadron of them) but even I'm not massively thrilled about driving one these days - they didn't even have air bags or any kind of collapsable steering column until 2020.
- DyslexicAtheist 5y ago
  yes true. I think that the Defender's low number of driver casualties might be due to the type of people who drive them (conservatively). Unlikely that somebody wants to race in that car. My previous cars were BMW's and these things turned me into a reckless douche the minute I sat behind the steering. The saying is Defenders "don't go fast but they can go everywhere". I changed my driving habit and attitude on the road considerably (I started taking the scenic routes and learned to enjoy the ride, with an unusually high sitting position, wave at other defender drivers if I see them, and could fit all friends of my kids inside). AFAIK the pedestrian safety rating for them is why older models (after the Ford/Puma engine) was abysmal and they discontinued. If you hit a pedestrian or cyclist that's probably it. That has always been my main worry. But I think the safety for the driver/passenger is pretty good when using common sense and when not driving them like the stig. I hit a wild pig once in a forest in France and it was splattered across the front but not so much as a dent in the car. They also come with roll-over cages on the US market which tells something about what can go wrong if you lose control. Never got one since I don't drive rallys. Still their handling (directness of the steering) is much better than a Wrangler (where the steering is horribly "spongy").
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    > I think that the Defender's low number of driver casualties might be due to the type of people who drive them (conservatively). The owners are a massively understated source of differences in performance and perception of both manufacturers and specific models.

chrisseaton 5y ago

I'm passionate about Defenders (I've commanded a squadron of them) but even I'm not massively thrilled about driving one these days - they didn't even have air bags or any kind of collapsable steering column until 2020.

DyslexicAtheist 5y ago
yes true. I think that the Defender's low number of driver casualties might be due to the type of people who drive them (conservatively). Unlikely that somebody wants to race in that car. My previous cars were BMW's and these things turned me into a reckless douche the minute I sat behind the steering. The saying is Defenders "don't go fast but they can go everywhere". I changed my driving habit and attitude on the road considerably (I started taking the scenic routes and learned to enjoy the ride, with an unusually high sitting position, wave at other defender drivers if I see them, and could fit all friends of my kids inside). AFAIK the pedestrian safety rating for them is why older models (after the Ford/Puma engine) was abysmal and they discontinued. If you hit a pedestrian or cyclist that's probably it. That has always been my main worry. But I think the safety for the driver/passenger is pretty good when using common sense and when not driving them like the stig. I hit a wild pig once in a forest in France and it was splattered across the front but not so much as a dent in the car. They also come with roll-over cages on the US market which tells something about what can go wrong if you lose control. Never got one since I don't drive rallys. Still their handling (directness of the steering) is much better than a Wrangler (where the steering is horribly "spongy").
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  > I think that the Defender's low number of driver casualties might be due to the type of people who drive them (conservatively). The owners are a massively understated source of differences in performance and perception of both manufacturers and specific models.