3 ms·

During an interview with some of the doctors sent into Wuhan in their wave, they claimed none of the 10 thousand or so doctors sent in became infected. They use

During an interview with some of the doctors sent into Wuhan in their wave, they claimed none of the 10 thousand or so doctors sent in became infected. They used strict PPE protocol, including N95 masks. Given what we know about the covid transmission now, it was absolutely the N95s that prevented these doctors from getting infected.

NeutronStar 5y ago
Absolutely not. You can't claim absolutely.
ganoushoreilly 5y ago
Alternatively it could also be flawed data on infections, which we know is already highly likely.
nimish 5y ago
Then run a proper randomized controlled trial with comparisons to cloth and surgical masks so we have actual data, not 10000 anecdotes. This was the biggest event of the last 50 years, we can throw a few billion at a real trial.
- simpleguitar 5y ago
  One problem--ethics. Can't knowingly give humans less protection. It's not a money problem.
  - nimish 5y ago
    That is what you are testing! Equipoise demands you don't assume one outcome. Otherwise every single pharmaceutical trial would be impossible since "we can't knowingly give humans a placebo" If the effect is large and significant we will see it quickly and can halt asap.
    - La1n 5y ago
      >Otherwise every single pharmaceutical trial would be impossible since "we can't knowingly give humans a placebo" Lots pharma trials are against current best standard of care and not placebo. Placebo trials are never done in cases where effective therapy is available. https://www.cancer.net/research-and-advocacy/clinical-trials/placebos-cancer-clinical-trials https://www.cancer.net/research-and-advocacy/clinical-trials... >A: Placebo-controlled trials are never appropriate when a highly effective or potentially curative therapy is available for a patient. An exception is unless the trial allows the patient to receive the new treatment/placebo in addition to the potentially curative therapy. For example, let’s say that a promising new treatment is in development for advanced testicular cancer, a disease that is curable in many cases with the use of chemotherapy. It would not be appropriate for a clinical trial to randomize patients between the new treatment and placebo because potentially curative chemotherapy already exists. However, it might be appropriate to randomize between standard chemotherapy plus the new drug or standard chemotherapy plus placebo because in both cases, patients will receive the standard, potentially curative treatment.
    - simpleguitar 5y ago
      "29. The benefits, risks, burdens and effectiveness of a new method should be tested against those of the best current prophylactic, diagnostic, and therapeutic methods. This does not exclude the use of placebo, or no treatment, in studies where no proven prophylactic, diagnostic or therapeutic method exists." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo-controlled_study#Declaration_of_Helsinki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo-controlled_study#Decla...
makomk 5y ago
If I remember rightly, what they actually claimed is that none of the doctors sent in were infected in the hospitals. That is, there were doctors sent to Wuhan who caught Covid, but the Chinese government blamed it on them becoming infected from contact with people outside of their work.

NeutronStar 5y ago

Absolutely not. You can't claim absolutely.

ganoushoreilly 5y ago

Alternatively it could also be flawed data on infections, which we know is already highly likely.

nimish 5y ago

Then run a proper randomized controlled trial with comparisons to cloth and surgical masks so we have actual data, not 10000 anecdotes. This was the biggest event of the last 50 years, we can throw a few billion at a real trial.

simpleguitar 5y ago
One problem--ethics. Can't knowingly give humans less protection. It's not a money problem.
- nimish 5y ago
  That is what you are testing! Equipoise demands you don't assume one outcome. Otherwise every single pharmaceutical trial would be impossible since "we can't knowingly give humans a placebo" If the effect is large and significant we will see it quickly and can halt asap.
  - La1n 5y ago
    >Otherwise every single pharmaceutical trial would be impossible since "we can't knowingly give humans a placebo" Lots pharma trials are against current best standard of care and not placebo. Placebo trials are never done in cases where effective therapy is available. https://www.cancer.net/research-and-advocacy/clinical-trials/placebos-cancer-clinical-trials https://www.cancer.net/research-and-advocacy/clinical-trials... >A: Placebo-controlled trials are never appropriate when a highly effective or potentially curative therapy is available for a patient. An exception is unless the trial allows the patient to receive the new treatment/placebo in addition to the potentially curative therapy. For example, let’s say that a promising new treatment is in development for advanced testicular cancer, a disease that is curable in many cases with the use of chemotherapy. It would not be appropriate for a clinical trial to randomize patients between the new treatment and placebo because potentially curative chemotherapy already exists. However, it might be appropriate to randomize between standard chemotherapy plus the new drug or standard chemotherapy plus placebo because in both cases, patients will receive the standard, potentially curative treatment.
  - simpleguitar 5y ago
    "29. The benefits, risks, burdens and effectiveness of a new method should be tested against those of the best current prophylactic, diagnostic, and therapeutic methods. This does not exclude the use of placebo, or no treatment, in studies where no proven prophylactic, diagnostic or therapeutic method exists." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo-controlled_study#Declaration_of_Helsinki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo-controlled_study#Decla...

makomk 5y ago

If I remember rightly, what they actually claimed is that none of the doctors sent in were infected in the hospitals. That is, there were doctors sent to Wuhan who caught Covid, but the Chinese government blamed it on them becoming infected from contact with people outside of their work.