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Genuine question: what's wrong with banning plastic straws? Edit: I know that paper straws are a pain to drink through, my question was more: why is banning pl

Genuine question: what's wrong with banning plastic straws? Edit: I know that paper straws are a pain to drink through, my question was more: why is banning plastic straws an example of "faith-based science denialism"?

Smilliam 5y ago
Hypothetical answer: A ban on plastic straws can unintentionally make life more difficult for individuals with motor disabilities. Paper straws break down relatively quickly and can lose suction effectiveness as a result. Reusable metal straws can cause chipped teeth or gum damage if bitten down on by someone with poor fine motor control. No straws at all can leave an individual unable to ingest liquids entirely. Reusable soft plastic straws would be ideal, but the tradeoff is that now we've placed yet an extra burden on an impaired person (or their caretakers) in our society because now they'll need to maintain a supply of clean, reusable straws that they need to transport with them. Disposable plastic straws are "soft" enough to not damage someone's teeth or gums too severely when bitten down on, but are more durable than paper straws to ensure reliable suction over time, and they do not require any upkeep or maintenance for proper hygiene due to their disposable nature.
- techsupporter 5y ago
  I'm not sure if I can do this topic justice solely over text, but I'm going to try because I genuinely think it's important to address, and with the plea that I'm truly not trying to be a horse's ass here and disparage people who have different needs. If anything, I think people who have different needs are the ones being taken advantage of, both coming and going. This quote really stood out to me: > and they [disposable plastic straws] do not require any upkeep or maintenance for proper hygiene due to their disposable nature. It's a rather bright example of the problem our global society has put itself into: there's still a need to deal with these items, but that need is no longer on the person using the item; it has been outsourced to the rubbish bin and, thus, to society and the environment at large. We've done this to ourselves in myriad ways. Expanding public transport is "unfair" to people who have different needs because perhaps some people cannot quickly or easily board transit vehicles, or those trips do not go to the front door of where some people need to go. We cannot eliminate or shrink parking requirements or availability for the same reason. Politically, we stop at "well, can't do that" without considering "OK, how could we do almost all of that with modifications for people who have other needs?" We've fallen into the perfect must be the only outcome otherwise why bother. Some of that is genuinely not knowing, but large parts of opposition to the changes we know we need to make--both individually and on the companies and businesses supplying us in environmentally-poor ways--are disingenuously hiding behind those arguments simply to obstruct. That's frustrating.
- sellyme 5y ago
  I'm unaware of any jurisdiction in which plastic straws are banned that does not explicitly make exceptions for those with disabilities.
blisterpeanuts 5y ago
Tangentially, has anyone developed a good use for old plastic straws? Like melting them down to 3D printer filament, or maybe just switch to corn/soy based plastic that is biodegradable within a reasonable time? Paper and metal are just not good substitutes. I think some of the "anti-big government" sentiment comes from banning very useful items without some sort of acceptable substitute.
_-david-_ 5y ago
Paper straws don't work well if you take too long to drink or if you are drinking something thick.
Alupis 5y ago
> Genuine question: what's wrong with banning plastic straws? The push to ban plastic straws was nearly entirely based on misinformation or lack of information. Most of the debate was propelled to the highest levels by a 4th grader that literally made the data up[1], but that data was used to prescribe a "science and data driven ban". Turns out, plastic straws really were never a big problem. Sure, single-use-plastic is a problem in general, but the ban of plastic straws has had nearly zero impact on the environment - or it could be argued it's had a negative impact since companies like Starbucks started using "multi-use" recyclable lids which in reality end up being single-use and are often thrown into the trash instead of recycling bin, and use more plastic material than dozens of straws combined. The plastic bag ban is the same way too... turns out those reusable cotton tote bags consume way more energy to produce than thin plastic bags, causing dramatic increases in GHG releases, energy consumption, etc[2][3]. We now know plastic bags and straws are not a major contributor (or at all, really) to that massive plastic dump in the Pacific Ocean, which is mostly from fishing vessel waste tossed overboard. Good intentions with poor consequences unfortunately. It's this sort of "theater" that puts people off... [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/business/plastic-straws-ban-fact-check-nyt.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/business/plastic-straws-b... [2] https://www.nationalgeographic.org/media/sustainable-shoppingwhich-bag-best/ https://www.nationalgeographic.org/media/sustainable-shoppin... [3] https://qz.com/1585027/when-it-comes-to-climate-change-cotton-totes-might-be-worse-than-plastic/ https://qz.com/1585027/when-it-comes-to-climate-change-cotto... [4] https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/great-pacific-garbage-patch/ https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/great-pacifi...

Smilliam 5y ago

Hypothetical answer: A ban on plastic straws can unintentionally make life more difficult for individuals with motor disabilities. Paper straws break down relatively quickly and can lose suction effectiveness as a result. Reusable metal straws can cause chipped teeth or gum damage if bitten down on by someone with poor fine motor control. No straws at all can leave an individual unable to ingest liquids entirely. Reusable soft plastic straws would be ideal, but the tradeoff is that now we've placed yet an extra burden on an impaired person (or their caretakers) in our society because now they'll need to maintain a supply of clean, reusable straws that they need to transport with them. Disposable plastic straws are "soft" enough to not damage someone's teeth or gums too severely when bitten down on, but are more durable than paper straws to ensure reliable suction over time, and they do not require any upkeep or maintenance for proper hygiene due to their disposable nature.

techsupporter 5y ago
I'm not sure if I can do this topic justice solely over text, but I'm going to try because I genuinely think it's important to address, and with the plea that I'm truly not trying to be a horse's ass here and disparage people who have different needs. If anything, I think people who have different needs are the ones being taken advantage of, both coming and going. This quote really stood out to me: > and they [disposable plastic straws] do not require any upkeep or maintenance for proper hygiene due to their disposable nature. It's a rather bright example of the problem our global society has put itself into: there's still a need to deal with these items, but that need is no longer on the person using the item; it has been outsourced to the rubbish bin and, thus, to society and the environment at large. We've done this to ourselves in myriad ways. Expanding public transport is "unfair" to people who have different needs because perhaps some people cannot quickly or easily board transit vehicles, or those trips do not go to the front door of where some people need to go. We cannot eliminate or shrink parking requirements or availability for the same reason. Politically, we stop at "well, can't do that" without considering "OK, how could we do almost all of that with modifications for people who have other needs?" We've fallen into the perfect must be the only outcome otherwise why bother. Some of that is genuinely not knowing, but large parts of opposition to the changes we know we need to make--both individually and on the companies and businesses supplying us in environmentally-poor ways--are disingenuously hiding behind those arguments simply to obstruct. That's frustrating.
sellyme 5y ago
I'm unaware of any jurisdiction in which plastic straws are banned that does not explicitly make exceptions for those with disabilities.

blisterpeanuts 5y ago

Tangentially, has anyone developed a good use for old plastic straws? Like melting them down to 3D printer filament, or maybe just switch to corn/soy based plastic that is biodegradable within a reasonable time? Paper and metal are just not good substitutes. I think some of the "anti-big government" sentiment comes from banning very useful items without some sort of acceptable substitute.

_-david-_ 5y ago

Paper straws don't work well if you take too long to drink or if you are drinking something thick.

Alupis 5y ago

> Genuine question: what's wrong with banning plastic straws? The push to ban plastic straws was nearly entirely based on misinformation or lack of information. Most of the debate was propelled to the highest levels by a 4th grader that literally made the data up[1], but that data was used to prescribe a "science and data driven ban". Turns out, plastic straws really were never a big problem. Sure, single-use-plastic is a problem in general, but the ban of plastic straws has had nearly zero impact on the environment - or it could be argued it's had a negative impact since companies like Starbucks started using "multi-use" recyclable lids which in reality end up being single-use and are often thrown into the trash instead of recycling bin, and use more plastic material than dozens of straws combined. The plastic bag ban is the same way too... turns out those reusable cotton tote bags consume way more energy to produce than thin plastic bags, causing dramatic increases in GHG releases, energy consumption, etc[2][3]. We now know plastic bags and straws are not a major contributor (or at all, really) to that massive plastic dump in the Pacific Ocean, which is mostly from fishing vessel waste tossed overboard. Good intentions with poor consequences unfortunately. It's this sort of "theater" that puts people off... [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/business/plastic-straws-ban-fact-check-nyt.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/business/plastic-straws-b... [2] https://www.nationalgeographic.org/media/sustainable-shoppingwhich-bag-best/ https://www.nationalgeographic.org/media/sustainable-shoppin... [3] https://qz.com/1585027/when-it-comes-to-climate-change-cotton-totes-might-be-worse-than-plastic/ https://qz.com/1585027/when-it-comes-to-climate-change-cotto... [4] https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/great-pacific-garbage-patch/ https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/great-pacifi...