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Thanks - as a non-American living there, this is pretty helpful to further my understanding. I wonder whether there's any actual examples of the values being b

by joshka 5y ago

Thanks - as a non-American living there, this is pretty helpful to further my understanding. I wonder whether there's any actual examples of the values being brought back from a point where they have disappeared.

troutwine 5y ago
> I wonder whether there's any actual examples of the values being brought back from a point where they have disappeared. I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what you're saying here. Are you asking about examples of people that have been de-radicalized?
- joshka 5y ago
  To be clearer - given Jones asserts that the reversal of satanists/globalists is good, are there examples of where such a reversal has had positive measurable effects on a society? I'm looking to understand perspectives opposite to my own here (as an atheist, non-American, liberal leaning person).
  - mensetmanusman 5y ago
    One common example is that religious cultures have a family culture that can propagates through time by having replacement levels of offspring. So far, to date, every secular and atheistic culture tends towards inverting the demographic pyramid by having about half the required number of offspring to stabilize their culture/viewpoint through time. This view assumes that there is any meaning to life, of course.
    - joshka 5y ago
      And the counter example on that is that disproportionate taking of POC adult males from the community has a destabilization effect on that community / family.
  - troutwine 5y ago
    > given Jones asserts that the reversal of satanists/globalists is good, are there examples of where such a reversal has had positive measurable effects on a society Uh, it's not that kind of belief system. The notion that we should order society by measurable things is not necessarily a universal belief, even if it's one I agree with personally. Last bastion apocalyptism like I've described doesn't really do "measurable".
ianai 5y ago
“Evil Geniuses: the unmasking of America” was pretty good at tracking this. Basically politicians are using the framing of the glorified past within “American values” to manufacture dissent and create us/them other-izing between US citizens. The book explains it much more in depth. Get people to stop thinking of their fellow citizens as part of the same group as them in a fundamental way and chaos reigns. Maybe eventually it’s civil war. (It definitely drives that country from thinking of international factors.) Probably another interesting definition of American values would be the ones held in foreign people. Sort of in the same way there’s who you are and then there’s the person in the minds of everyone who knows you. Except the US is a super power that’s done a lot of steering the world over the last century and that’s instilled some common practices across the world. Like citing CDC guidelines or using the US currency for reserve.
8bitsrule 5y ago
Many American values are fuzzy, hard to make out; how they are applied is only visible if you dig into history. Not the history in textbooks though ... at least until you've innoculated yourself with Howard Zinn's history. Pay particular attention to how those values - say, 'all men are created equal' - apply to minorities.

by joshka 5y ago

troutwine 5y ago

> I wonder whether there's any actual examples of the values being brought back from a point where they have disappeared. I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what you're saying here. Are you asking about examples of people that have been de-radicalized?

joshka 5y ago
To be clearer - given Jones asserts that the reversal of satanists/globalists is good, are there examples of where such a reversal has had positive measurable effects on a society? I'm looking to understand perspectives opposite to my own here (as an atheist, non-American, liberal leaning person).
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  One common example is that religious cultures have a family culture that can propagates through time by having replacement levels of offspring. So far, to date, every secular and atheistic culture tends towards inverting the demographic pyramid by having about half the required number of offspring to stabilize their culture/viewpoint through time. This view assumes that there is any meaning to life, of course.
  - joshka 5y ago
    And the counter example on that is that disproportionate taking of POC adult males from the community has a destabilization effect on that community / family.
- troutwine 5y ago
  > given Jones asserts that the reversal of satanists/globalists is good, are there examples of where such a reversal has had positive measurable effects on a society Uh, it's not that kind of belief system. The notion that we should order society by measurable things is not necessarily a universal belief, even if it's one I agree with personally. Last bastion apocalyptism like I've described doesn't really do "measurable".

ianai 5y ago

“Evil Geniuses: the unmasking of America” was pretty good at tracking this. Basically politicians are using the framing of the glorified past within “American values” to manufacture dissent and create us/them other-izing between US citizens. The book explains it much more in depth. Get people to stop thinking of their fellow citizens as part of the same group as them in a fundamental way and chaos reigns. Maybe eventually it’s civil war. (It definitely drives that country from thinking of international factors.) Probably another interesting definition of American values would be the ones held in foreign people. Sort of in the same way there’s who you are and then there’s the person in the minds of everyone who knows you. Except the US is a super power that’s done a lot of steering the world over the last century and that’s instilled some common practices across the world. Like citing CDC guidelines or using the US currency for reserve.

8bitsrule 5y ago

Many American values are fuzzy, hard to make out; how they are applied is only visible if you dig into history. Not the history in textbooks though ... at least until you've innoculated yourself with Howard Zinn's history. Pay particular attention to how those values - say, 'all men are created equal' - apply to minorities.