3 ms·

It looks like the problem isn't WASM features, but web I/O APIs, like the File System Access API.

dmitriid 5y ago
Many of the more "advanced APIs" are unlikely to be shipped in either Firefox or Safari because of security and privacy concerns. For example, Chrome released File System Access by defaul tin Chrome 86, on October 6, 2020. And yet, as late as August 2020 they were saying that they'd just got the spec in shape: https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/154#issuecomment-668757669 https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/154#is.... And there are still unresolved issues around actual security of the thing (that Chrome happily ignores). The "spec" itself lists 13 issues: https://wicg.github.io/file-system-access/ https://wicg.github.io/file-system-access/ And Safari won't implement it: https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2020-August/031362.html https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2020-August/03...
- atatatat 5y ago
  If business PCs are running Microsoft Teams + Outlook PWAs on Edge (Chromium based), personal PCs as a majority are running Chrome/Chromium...I can't see why Apple wouldn't come to a compromise to treat PWAs with respect. It's not just about privacy of web APIs...it's about Apple's chokehold on iPhone users.
  - dmitriid 5y ago
    > It's not just about privacy of web APIs...it's about Apple's chokehold on iPhone users. Funny how you fully ignore Firefox's position
    - atatatat 5y ago
      They're unable to keep anything close to security parity with Chromium — even with hundreds of millions of dollars. You're right — frankly, I don't look to Mozilla as the leader or voice of web development anymore.
      - dmitriid 5y ago
        > They're unable to keep anything close to security parity with Chromium Funny how you went from "Apple's chokehold on iPhone users" to "unable to keep anything close to security parity". I wonder in which respects Safari "can't keep up"? > I don't look to Mozilla as the leader or voice of web development anymore. - There are only two other independent browser engines of any importance, and their input is increasingly ignored by Chrome - Who cares, go Chrome This is not as good a take as you think it is.
        atatatat 5y ago
        Emotional response, no hint of a point.
- atatatat 5y ago
  > 13 issues These are mostly a to-do list...which makes sense at this stage? I'm not sure what you're getting at. Do you think that Apple or Mozilla can stop webapps from taking their rightful place?
  - dmitriid 5y ago
    > These are mostly a to-do list...which makes sense at this stage Which stage is it? Chrome is already shipping this, enabled by default. And the "todo list" covers important issues around permissions, restricting file system access we etc. > Do you think that Apple or Mozilla can stop webapps from taking their rightful place? I think that Chrome plays fast and loose with web standards, and has essentially replaced web standards with Chrome-designed and Chrome-specific APIs, while fully ignoring any concerns from other browsers.
    - atatatat 5y ago
      > Which stage is it? The stage where a majority of professional web devs (y'know, the people who aren't here!) still haven't even heard, or fully assimilated, the term "PWA" yet. > the "todo list" covers important issues around permissions, restricting file system access we etc. They've proven very capable of managing this in AOSP. > I think that Chrome plays fast and loose with web standards, and has essentially replaced web standards with Chrome-designed and Chrome-specific APIs, while fully ignoring any concerns from other browsers. "Chrome-specific" implies DRM etc which I don't find fair here, as a very regular Google critic. If the concerns are always "We can't keep up", I don't blame Chromium team for pushing on ahead, and letting other browsers catch up. Frankly: Mozilla isn't leading the way on web standards anymore. (And they're not doing as good a job with security+privacy, really, either, compared to properly configured Chromium.)
      - ranguna 5y ago
        Can you give a few examples to backup your claim that chrome is head of Firefox in terms of security and privacy?

Many of the more "advanced APIs" are unlikely to be shipped in either Firefox or Safari because of security and privacy concerns. For example, Chrome released File System Access by defaul tin Chrome 86, on October 6, 2020. And yet, as late as August 2020 they were saying that they'd just got the spec in shape: https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/154#issuecomment-668757669 https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/154#is.... And there are still unresolved issues around actual security of the thing (that Chrome happily ignores). The "spec" itself lists 13 issues: https://wicg.github.io/file-system-access/ https://wicg.github.io/file-system-access/ And Safari won't implement it: https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2020-August/031362.html https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2020-August/03...

atatatat 5y ago
If business PCs are running Microsoft Teams + Outlook PWAs on Edge (Chromium based), personal PCs as a majority are running Chrome/Chromium...I can't see why Apple wouldn't come to a compromise to treat PWAs with respect. It's not just about privacy of web APIs...it's about Apple's chokehold on iPhone users.
- dmitriid 5y ago
  > It's not just about privacy of web APIs...it's about Apple's chokehold on iPhone users. Funny how you fully ignore Firefox's position
  - atatatat 5y ago
    They're unable to keep anything close to security parity with Chromium — even with hundreds of millions of dollars. You're right — frankly, I don't look to Mozilla as the leader or voice of web development anymore.
    - dmitriid 5y ago
      > They're unable to keep anything close to security parity with Chromium Funny how you went from "Apple's chokehold on iPhone users" to "unable to keep anything close to security parity". I wonder in which respects Safari "can't keep up"? > I don't look to Mozilla as the leader or voice of web development anymore. - There are only two other independent browser engines of any importance, and their input is increasingly ignored by Chrome - Who cares, go Chrome This is not as good a take as you think it is.
      - atatatat 5y ago
        Emotional response, no hint of a point.
atatatat 5y ago
> 13 issues These are mostly a to-do list...which makes sense at this stage? I'm not sure what you're getting at. Do you think that Apple or Mozilla can stop webapps from taking their rightful place?
- dmitriid 5y ago
  > These are mostly a to-do list...which makes sense at this stage Which stage is it? Chrome is already shipping this, enabled by default. And the "todo list" covers important issues around permissions, restricting file system access we etc. > Do you think that Apple or Mozilla can stop webapps from taking their rightful place? I think that Chrome plays fast and loose with web standards, and has essentially replaced web standards with Chrome-designed and Chrome-specific APIs, while fully ignoring any concerns from other browsers.
  - atatatat 5y ago
    > Which stage is it? The stage where a majority of professional web devs (y'know, the people who aren't here!) still haven't even heard, or fully assimilated, the term "PWA" yet. > the "todo list" covers important issues around permissions, restricting file system access we etc. They've proven very capable of managing this in AOSP. > I think that Chrome plays fast and loose with web standards, and has essentially replaced web standards with Chrome-designed and Chrome-specific APIs, while fully ignoring any concerns from other browsers. "Chrome-specific" implies DRM etc which I don't find fair here, as a very regular Google critic. If the concerns are always "We can't keep up", I don't blame Chromium team for pushing on ahead, and letting other browsers catch up. Frankly: Mozilla isn't leading the way on web standards anymore. (And they're not doing as good a job with security+privacy, really, either, compared to properly configured Chromium.)
    - ranguna 5y ago
      Can you give a few examples to backup your claim that chrome is head of Firefox in terms of security and privacy?