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> Oregon will continue to violate more and more American values and American freedoms Haha, what? If Oregon is doing stuff, it's definitionally an American val

> Oregon will continue to violate more and more American values and American freedoms Haha, what? If Oregon is doing stuff, it's definitionally an American value and American Freedom, right? Who gets to decide what an "American *" is? > > 4. Safety: Idaho allows forests to be managed to prevent destruction of housing from huge wildfires. They do realize that Idaho and Oregon have different climates and different precipitation amounts, right? The Western Rockies and Eastern Cascades are different biomes. > > 5. Thriving Economy: Idaho has less regulation than any other state, low unemployment, and would allow our rural industries to revive and employ us again. Is there any data that backs this up? This feels like a pipe dream to me that's totally unfounded.

hackyhacky 5y ago
> Haha, what? If Oregon is doing stuff, it's definitionally an American value and American Freedom, right? Who gets to decide what an "American *" is? Have you watched Fox News recently? They're very clear: "American" refers to their (conservative, older, rural) viewers; "anti-American" refers to everyone else. People believe this.
- _qwfv 5y ago
  I know. I just... I keep hoping that by pointing out the obvious silliness of the phrase "American Values" that maybe, someone somewhere will read it and be like, "Huh, you know, maybe what I meant to say was, 'My values'...."
  - mensetmanusman 5y ago
    One interesting discussion point about American values it’s about whether it should be determined by the number of humans inside of American borders, or if it is just a birthright. I support using satellite imagery to get a day by day census count to include tourists and everyone inside of America as part of the decision making and voting process to improve infrastructure at least.
    - captainredbeard 5y ago
      Why should non-citizens have a voice in how our country is ran?
cratermoon 5y ago
> violate more and more American values and American freedoms By this the folks in eastern Oregon are criticizing Democratic Gov. Brown for her approach to the pandemic: you know, normal things like closing restaurants and churches, requiring masks indoors, etc.
- _qwfv 5y ago
  Ok, so say that. Or connect them to "American Values" concretely somehow. Because right now they are just saying their opponents are "un-American" which means whatever it needs to mean without actually saying anything of substance.
  - cratermoon 5y ago
    They put it that way on purpose, it's coded language, full of dog whistles. They don't say the quiet part out loud.
    - sangnoir 5y ago
      It's amazing how some folk deny what the intention is - I guess the terms provide plausible deniability. Sometimes it's "real Americans" or "middle-class Americans", or "people in the heartland" - we all know which demography you're referring to (and everyone else you're excluding).
      - cratermoon 5y ago
        Also "hard-working folks", "taxpayers", and "patriots"
  - iammisc 5y ago
    > Ok, so say that. Or connect them to "American Values" concretely somehow. The 1st amendment granting freedom to assemble? Free exercise of religion? The supreme court agreed when it struck down New York's and California's bans on religious gatherings, which also affected Oregon. So broadly speaking, these are correct by the highest authority on 'American'. Perhaps this doesn't come to mind when you hear 'American values', but why would these counties care? You are almost certainly not their intended audience.
jfrunyon 5y ago
> Who gets to decide what an "American *" is? Their intended audience. Keep in mind, this is written to appeal to someone who is already likely to agree that Oregon is handling these topics poorly.
- _qwfv 5y ago
  I think I'm mostly just expressing frustration that this actually works. That anyone looks at that phrasing and says, "Yes, this makes sense."
  - chrononaut 5y ago
    Unfortunately logical fallacies are often used in much of political messaging, which far precedes the current climate. https://propagandaprinciples.wordpress.com/logical-fallacies/ https://propagandaprinciples.wordpress.com/logical-fallacies...
  - jfrunyon 5y ago
    I certainly agree with you there. As the other person mentions though, it didn't appear any time recently and it's not going to go away any time soon. Most people don't think about things logically or critically. See also: ads work.

hackyhacky 5y ago

> Haha, what? If Oregon is doing stuff, it's definitionally an American value and American Freedom, right? Who gets to decide what an "American *" is? Have you watched Fox News recently? They're very clear: "American" refers to their (conservative, older, rural) viewers; "anti-American" refers to everyone else. People believe this.

_qwfv 5y ago
I know. I just... I keep hoping that by pointing out the obvious silliness of the phrase "American Values" that maybe, someone somewhere will read it and be like, "Huh, you know, maybe what I meant to say was, 'My values'...."
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  One interesting discussion point about American values it’s about whether it should be determined by the number of humans inside of American borders, or if it is just a birthright. I support using satellite imagery to get a day by day census count to include tourists and everyone inside of America as part of the decision making and voting process to improve infrastructure at least.
  - captainredbeard 5y ago
    Why should non-citizens have a voice in how our country is ran?

cratermoon 5y ago

> violate more and more American values and American freedoms By this the folks in eastern Oregon are criticizing Democratic Gov. Brown for her approach to the pandemic: you know, normal things like closing restaurants and churches, requiring masks indoors, etc.

_qwfv 5y ago
Ok, so say that. Or connect them to "American Values" concretely somehow. Because right now they are just saying their opponents are "un-American" which means whatever it needs to mean without actually saying anything of substance.
- cratermoon 5y ago
  They put it that way on purpose, it's coded language, full of dog whistles. They don't say the quiet part out loud.
  - sangnoir 5y ago
    It's amazing how some folk deny what the intention is - I guess the terms provide plausible deniability. Sometimes it's "real Americans" or "middle-class Americans", or "people in the heartland" - we all know which demography you're referring to (and everyone else you're excluding).
    - cratermoon 5y ago
      Also "hard-working folks", "taxpayers", and "patriots"
- iammisc 5y ago
  > Ok, so say that. Or connect them to "American Values" concretely somehow. The 1st amendment granting freedom to assemble? Free exercise of religion? The supreme court agreed when it struck down New York's and California's bans on religious gatherings, which also affected Oregon. So broadly speaking, these are correct by the highest authority on 'American'. Perhaps this doesn't come to mind when you hear 'American values', but why would these counties care? You are almost certainly not their intended audience.

jfrunyon 5y ago

> Who gets to decide what an "American *" is? Their intended audience. Keep in mind, this is written to appeal to someone who is already likely to agree that Oregon is handling these topics poorly.

_qwfv 5y ago
I think I'm mostly just expressing frustration that this actually works. That anyone looks at that phrasing and says, "Yes, this makes sense."
- chrononaut 5y ago
  Unfortunately logical fallacies are often used in much of political messaging, which far precedes the current climate. https://propagandaprinciples.wordpress.com/logical-fallacies/ https://propagandaprinciples.wordpress.com/logical-fallacies...
- jfrunyon 5y ago
  I certainly agree with you there. As the other person mentions though, it didn't appear any time recently and it's not going to go away any time soon. Most people don't think about things logically or critically. See also: ads work.