4 ms·

As an Oregonian not living in one of those sparsely-populated counties that voted for secession, I wonder why the folks who want to be part of Idaho don't just

As an Oregonian not living in one of those sparsely-populated counties that voted for secession, I wonder why the folks who want to be part of Idaho don't just vote with their feet and move there? There's no border wall keeping them in Oregon. These votes are just symbolic and won't get them to their Idaho paradise near as quickly as a U-Haul could.

bombcar 5y ago
Because voting is easy and moving is hard.
dumbfoundded 5y ago
The whole point of democracy is to vote to change things you don't like about your government. I don't agree with them but I respect their right to vote on it. I wouldn't respect or legitimize a violent insurrection.
- UncleOxidant 5y ago
  Yeah, but it's not like this vote is going to accomplish anything. It's just symbolic. If they really want to live under a more conservative government, well, there's one right there to the east.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- JohnWhigham 5y ago
  >I wouldn't respect or legitimize a violent insurrection. You know that's how the US was formed, right?
  - jessaustin 5y ago
    Sure, but the future can be better than the past. It would be wonderful for humans if the process of changing sovereignty were normally non-violent.
  - dumbfoundded 5y ago
    It's almost like different situations are different. Violence has been a part of Oregonian state politics for a long time and as recently as within the last 12 months (1). I certainly do not condone nor support the violence of the far-right in the place where I've spent the majority of my life. I would love to learn about your perspective though. What deep issues do you think require violence in this situation? Do you support their right to leave the state violently if the state legislature doesn't let them? What level of insurrection do you think is okay? Are they just allowed to defend themselves within their county or are they justified attacking the state government outside of their lands? I'm excited to hear your response. I'm sure you're trying to add to the conversation and I can't wait to learn from you. (1) https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/01/oregon-state-capitol-republican-charged https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/01/oregon-state...
dunkinkong 5y ago
For all the times you hear "if you don't like it, leave", it does rub me as rich that they would want to move the line instead of stepping over it. I'm not saying it's easy, but giddy up, how about some pioneering spirit?
- therealjumbo 5y ago
  What is the typical response to "if you don't like it leave"? Why isn't "if you don't like it leave" a productive suggestion in pretty much any case? Per the guidelines of this site, we are recommended to take the most charitable interpretation of the other commenter's post. Similarly, you could pay more heed to the more nuanced arguments of the other political side, and just ignore the non-productive arguments like "if you don't like it leave." Throwing that suggestion back over the wall, isn't going to lead to a productive conversation.
avalys 5y ago
Maybe they like their home, their community, and their neighborhood, but what they don’t like is having a bunch of people living in population centers far away who don’t share their values telling them how to live their lives?
- xrd 5y ago
  I'm confused, are we talking about the electoral college system, or about Oregon?
  - tick_tock_tick 5y ago
    I mean their statement can be generalized to both but they are talking about the urban centers in Oregon.
- UncleOxidant 5y ago
  Sure, but if they feel that way and if they actually think Idaho will be more aligned to their values then it's not far away and it looks a whole lot like Eastern Oregon. These symbolic votes won't change anything for them. Ironic that a lot of these folks are in the "love it or leave it" camp.
- wwweston 5y ago
  > a bunch of people living in population centers far away "Far away" being "within the same state"? > "telling them how to live their lives" Yes, tell us the horrifying tales of distinctive micromanagement the people of Eastern Oregon have to suffer from. If you live in society featuring representative government and rule of law, no matter where you live you'll run into a situation where you won't be part of the plurality. And yes, frequently, "population centers" are going to be where the majority of people live, which means in any state, you're going to have the same problem. Which means this complaint is essentially about the idea that certain minorities get that they should have the right to impose their values on the majority.
  - kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 5y ago
medium_burrito 5y ago
Idaho has become very expensive in the last few years. It's basically Western Wyoming, but for poors.
- UncleOxidant 5y ago
  More expensive than Oregon? What parts of Idaho? It's a big state with lots of empty space hard to imagine that it's all expensive.
petermcneeley 5y ago
There is more than just 'exit' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exit,_Voice,_and_Loyalty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exit,_Voice,_and_Loyalty

bombcar 5y ago

Because voting is easy and moving is hard.

dumbfoundded 5y ago

The whole point of democracy is to vote to change things you don't like about your government. I don't agree with them but I respect their right to vote on it. I wouldn't respect or legitimize a violent insurrection.

UncleOxidant 5y ago
Yeah, but it's not like this vote is going to accomplish anything. It's just symbolic. If they really want to live under a more conservative government, well, there's one right there to the east.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
JohnWhigham 5y ago
>I wouldn't respect or legitimize a violent insurrection. You know that's how the US was formed, right?
- jessaustin 5y ago
  Sure, but the future can be better than the past. It would be wonderful for humans if the process of changing sovereignty were normally non-violent.
- dumbfoundded 5y ago
  It's almost like different situations are different. Violence has been a part of Oregonian state politics for a long time and as recently as within the last 12 months (1). I certainly do not condone nor support the violence of the far-right in the place where I've spent the majority of my life. I would love to learn about your perspective though. What deep issues do you think require violence in this situation? Do you support their right to leave the state violently if the state legislature doesn't let them? What level of insurrection do you think is okay? Are they just allowed to defend themselves within their county or are they justified attacking the state government outside of their lands? I'm excited to hear your response. I'm sure you're trying to add to the conversation and I can't wait to learn from you. (1) https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/01/oregon-state-capitol-republican-charged https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/01/oregon-state...

dunkinkong 5y ago

For all the times you hear "if you don't like it, leave", it does rub me as rich that they would want to move the line instead of stepping over it. I'm not saying it's easy, but giddy up, how about some pioneering spirit?

therealjumbo 5y ago
What is the typical response to "if you don't like it leave"? Why isn't "if you don't like it leave" a productive suggestion in pretty much any case? Per the guidelines of this site, we are recommended to take the most charitable interpretation of the other commenter's post. Similarly, you could pay more heed to the more nuanced arguments of the other political side, and just ignore the non-productive arguments like "if you don't like it leave." Throwing that suggestion back over the wall, isn't going to lead to a productive conversation.

avalys 5y ago

Maybe they like their home, their community, and their neighborhood, but what they don’t like is having a bunch of people living in population centers far away who don’t share their values telling them how to live their lives?

xrd 5y ago
I'm confused, are we talking about the electoral college system, or about Oregon?
- tick_tock_tick 5y ago
  I mean their statement can be generalized to both but they are talking about the urban centers in Oregon.
UncleOxidant 5y ago
Sure, but if they feel that way and if they actually think Idaho will be more aligned to their values then it's not far away and it looks a whole lot like Eastern Oregon. These symbolic votes won't change anything for them. Ironic that a lot of these folks are in the "love it or leave it" camp.
wwweston 5y ago
> a bunch of people living in population centers far away "Far away" being "within the same state"? > "telling them how to live their lives" Yes, tell us the horrifying tales of distinctive micromanagement the people of Eastern Oregon have to suffer from. If you live in society featuring representative government and rule of law, no matter where you live you'll run into a situation where you won't be part of the plurality. And yes, frequently, "population centers" are going to be where the majority of people live, which means in any state, you're going to have the same problem. Which means this complaint is essentially about the idea that certain minorities get that they should have the right to impose their values on the majority.
- kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 5y ago

medium_burrito 5y ago

Idaho has become very expensive in the last few years. It's basically Western Wyoming, but for poors.

UncleOxidant 5y ago
More expensive than Oregon? What parts of Idaho? It's a big state with lots of empty space hard to imagine that it's all expensive.

petermcneeley 5y ago

There is more than just 'exit' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exit,_Voice,_and_Loyalty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exit,_Voice,_and_Loyalty