4 ms·
I need some more context in order to understand the actual risks being suggested here. I fall into the "low to moderate" drinking category described in the stud
by ivraatiems 5y ago
I need some more context in order to understand the actual risks being suggested here. I fall into the "low to moderate" drinking category described in the study.
First, when we say 0.8% of gray matter, over what time period does that loss occur? The authors don't seem to know.
Second, what sort of effects does losing, say, 1% of gray matter integrity have? Increased risk of stroke, seizure, etc.? Effects on intellect?
It's all about risk/reward. If losing 0.8% of my total gray matter over, say, my lifetime (I don't know if that's what it is) results in a 1% loss in intellect over my lifetime, in exchange for thousands of hours of happiness resulting from moderate drinking, I'm probably OK with that. I don't intend to live forever. If it were 10% of intellectual capacity... maybe not.
Alcohol is a poison, the only totally-safe dose is 0% - in the same way that the only way to never get into a car accident is to never go outside. But I'd still like to better understand the relative harms before altering my (already reasonable) habits.
- thnujmikk 5y agoThe study doesn't infer causality. It could just be that people who drink happen to belong to the same class of people who lose 0.8% of grey matter.
- ivraatiems 5y agoThat's sort of what I inferred. Given that, I feel uncomfortable with their recommendation that we should start telling people there is no safe level of drinking. It is true in a literal sense, but I don't think there's sufficient evidence to suggest that people who genuinely drink very moderately need to change their habits radically in order to live healthier or happier lives.
- michaericalribo 5y agoThis is true, however, the sample size is quite large, they controlled for confounders, and they address the possibility that this is all a coincidence: > Whilst we controlled analyses for all known confounders and were more thorough in this than any previously published study, we cannot exclude the possible of residual confounding. However, the sensitivity analyses estimated that unobserved confounding would need to be of a greater strength than any recognized observed confounder, including age and smoking, to obviate the association between alcohol and brain health, which seems implausible. As an informal / heuristic argument, it seems practical to conclude there is some causal relationship.
- jeeeb 5y agoControlling for confounders and demonstrating causality are different things though. They explicitly acknowledge that they don’t demonstrate causality as a study weakness. People who drink alcohol may simply tend to have a slightly different brain structure. In this regard it would be more interesting to see a large scale longitudinal study demonstrating an effect in the same individual over time. Combined with population level studies and a demonstrated mechanism, I think that would be fairly definitive.
- aspaviento 5y ago> in exchange for thousands of hours of happiness resulting from moderate drinking I would be concerned if my happiness depends in any way on how much alcohol I consume.
- ivraatiems 5y agoThen you shouldn't drink any, being as it's a drug that makes you (general you) happier and more social, and that's one of the primary reasons it's consumed. Possibly you are confusing momentary happiness/qualitative enjoyment of a given experience with overall life happiness/mental state?
- wcoenen 5y agoIn spite of what the submission title seems to suggest, the study does not claim that they found a 0.8% loss of all gray matter for alcohol drinkers. What they actually found is that of the total variance in the amount of gray matter, they could explain 0.8% of that variance by alcohol consumption.
- ivraatiems 5y agoThat's an important qualifier, yes... but I think my questions still stand. In order to know how to change our behavior, we need to know what that additional variance means in terms of implications for one's health.
- akvadrako 5y agoThe studies I've read also suggest the grey matter may come back if the drinking is ceased; it might just be a water ratio adaption.