7 ms·

Inflation calculator says about $70k. But I do agree with your message, stuff like this definitely should be tied to inflation.

handmodel 5y ago
The point above is fair but also I can't help but think a lot of people who are bitcoin hardcores really overestimate historical inflation.
- BitwiseFool 5y ago
  I'm a thirty-something and when I was born money was worth roughly twice as much as it is today. When my grandfather was born, it was worth ten times as much as it is today. But you're right, I think us Bitcoiners in particular have a very allergic reaction to inflation and overestimate it's affects accordingly.
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    That's completely irrelevant because you're not supposed to stash it in a mattress you're supposed either spend it on basic needs or to invest it. If you started with $10K in 1970, sure, the value is reduced by a factor of 7. Intentionally to incentivize investment. If you started with $10K in 1970 and put it into the S&P 500, you'd have a 4162/83.15= 51X return, adjusted for inflation is still a 7X return. Notionally $510,000 - excluding dividends/re-investment thereof. If you started with $10K in 1970 and put it into an average home in the US you'd have $70K today, adjusted for inflation. (Average $/sqft on an inflation adjusted basis in the US is the same now as it was in 1973 [1] - you'd have way, way, way more if you'd bought property in a major metro - I'm just being conservative). You save value not money. The idea you should save money is a severe misunderstanding of basic economics. It's really not that hard: don't save money, save value. Your narrative is as harmful as it is straight-up wrong. [1] https://fee.org/articles/new-homes-today-have-twice-the-square-feet-per-person-as-in-1973/ https://fee.org/articles/new-homes-today-have-twice-the-squa...
    - donmcronald 5y ago
      I think it’s BS that everyone has to participate in the rigged game. Saving your money should be a valid option.
      - arcticbull 5y ago
        Ok, let's dig in. > ... everyone has to participate in the rigged game. In what way exactly is the current system of separating a long-term store of value and a short-term medium of exchange a "rigged game?" In what way would fusing the two change that? Are you not able to replicate that which you desire by simple purchasing an asset that does that? For instance, let's say you're a coiner and think that's a better way to store value - does the current system prevent you from backing your personal economy with bitcoin? How about gold? Why would you force me into the one of your choice when maximum freedom dictates giving me the choice on how to store value? Further, how would you propose keeping the unit of value at a specific pegged constant value without managing the supply actively? When the population changes? Productivity changes? Transient shocks like COVID leading to massive drops in velocity? After all, a constant supply does not mean a constant value. You realize the fed literally avoided a catastrophic deflationary spiral and held the value of money to within +/- 0.6% last year. That's a heck of an accomplishment.
        munk-a 5y ago
        Well, they've never been at a full match with inflation but banks did use to actually pay interest on savings accounts once upon a time. I think it's reasonable to allow members of society that want to sit on cash to preserve their quantity to a certain extent in that manner - even if it will fall short of gains expected by inflation.
        ghaff 5y ago
        They sort of can. There are CDs, treasuries, money market funds. Interest rates at the moment are pretty awful and I'm pretty much out of all that sort of thing. But they do exist.
  - lottin 5y ago
    > When my grandfather was born, it was worth ten times as much as it is today. And this is concerning why...?
  - omgwtfbbq 5y ago
    Imagine being concerned about inflation at 2-3% a year but not saying a word about bitcoin losing 30% of its value in 20 days.
- scsilver 5y ago
  Alternatively some people miss that asset inflation in the crypto currency space is happening at 1000s of percent of even high consumer inflation. Same with houses, rising 20% in less than a year, some assets are rocketting, inflation or not.
niyikiza 5y ago
I guess it's an instance of legislative #TODO comments.
- BitwiseFool 5y ago
  No, it's a feature not a bug. If you don't index things to inflation you can eventually cover average and middle-class amounts of money under the law - you just have to be patient.
  - strait 5y ago
    More likely the number 10000 is now entrenched in so many varied locations in the last 50 years that it would be a monumental undertaking to try and adjust it successfully.
    - xur17 5y ago
      If the rule is > $100k, can't businesses just continue reporting everything > $10k until they get around to updating their systems?
- SilasX 5y ago
  Some countries phrase monetary fines and thresholds in terms of some inflation-indexed value (e.g. "penalty units" in Australia) to as to avoid having to manually update every single value in the laws when they get around to it. I wish the US would do the same. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penalty_unit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penalty_unit

handmodel 5y ago

The point above is fair but also I can't help but think a lot of people who are bitcoin hardcores really overestimate historical inflation.

BitwiseFool 5y ago
I'm a thirty-something and when I was born money was worth roughly twice as much as it is today. When my grandfather was born, it was worth ten times as much as it is today. But you're right, I think us Bitcoiners in particular have a very allergic reaction to inflation and overestimate it's affects accordingly.
- arcticbull 5y ago
  That's completely irrelevant because you're not supposed to stash it in a mattress you're supposed either spend it on basic needs or to invest it. If you started with $10K in 1970, sure, the value is reduced by a factor of 7. Intentionally to incentivize investment. If you started with $10K in 1970 and put it into the S&P 500, you'd have a 4162/83.15= 51X return, adjusted for inflation is still a 7X return. Notionally $510,000 - excluding dividends/re-investment thereof. If you started with $10K in 1970 and put it into an average home in the US you'd have $70K today, adjusted for inflation. (Average $/sqft on an inflation adjusted basis in the US is the same now as it was in 1973 [1] - you'd have way, way, way more if you'd bought property in a major metro - I'm just being conservative). You save value not money. The idea you should save money is a severe misunderstanding of basic economics. It's really not that hard: don't save money, save value. Your narrative is as harmful as it is straight-up wrong. [1] https://fee.org/articles/new-homes-today-have-twice-the-square-feet-per-person-as-in-1973/ https://fee.org/articles/new-homes-today-have-twice-the-squa...
  - donmcronald 5y ago
    I think it’s BS that everyone has to participate in the rigged game. Saving your money should be a valid option.
    - arcticbull 5y ago
      Ok, let's dig in. > ... everyone has to participate in the rigged game. In what way exactly is the current system of separating a long-term store of value and a short-term medium of exchange a "rigged game?" In what way would fusing the two change that? Are you not able to replicate that which you desire by simple purchasing an asset that does that? For instance, let's say you're a coiner and think that's a better way to store value - does the current system prevent you from backing your personal economy with bitcoin? How about gold? Why would you force me into the one of your choice when maximum freedom dictates giving me the choice on how to store value? Further, how would you propose keeping the unit of value at a specific pegged constant value without managing the supply actively? When the population changes? Productivity changes? Transient shocks like COVID leading to massive drops in velocity? After all, a constant supply does not mean a constant value. You realize the fed literally avoided a catastrophic deflationary spiral and held the value of money to within +/- 0.6% last year. That's a heck of an accomplishment.
      - munk-a 5y ago
        Well, they've never been at a full match with inflation but banks did use to actually pay interest on savings accounts once upon a time. I think it's reasonable to allow members of society that want to sit on cash to preserve their quantity to a certain extent in that manner - even if it will fall short of gains expected by inflation.
        ghaff 5y ago
        They sort of can. There are CDs, treasuries, money market funds. Interest rates at the moment are pretty awful and I'm pretty much out of all that sort of thing. But they do exist.
- lottin 5y ago
  > When my grandfather was born, it was worth ten times as much as it is today. And this is concerning why...?
- omgwtfbbq 5y ago
  Imagine being concerned about inflation at 2-3% a year but not saying a word about bitcoin losing 30% of its value in 20 days.
scsilver 5y ago
Alternatively some people miss that asset inflation in the crypto currency space is happening at 1000s of percent of even high consumer inflation. Same with houses, rising 20% in less than a year, some assets are rocketting, inflation or not.

niyikiza 5y ago

I guess it's an instance of legislative #TODO comments.

BitwiseFool 5y ago
No, it's a feature not a bug. If you don't index things to inflation you can eventually cover average and middle-class amounts of money under the law - you just have to be patient.
- strait 5y ago
  More likely the number 10000 is now entrenched in so many varied locations in the last 50 years that it would be a monumental undertaking to try and adjust it successfully.
  - xur17 5y ago
    If the rule is > $100k, can't businesses just continue reporting everything > $10k until they get around to updating their systems?
SilasX 5y ago
Some countries phrase monetary fines and thresholds in terms of some inflation-indexed value (e.g. "penalty units" in Australia) to as to avoid having to manually update every single value in the laws when they get around to it. I wish the US would do the same. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penalty_unit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penalty_unit