4 ms·

My girlfriend recently enrolled in a university and one of the requirements was a certificate from one of the official places (TOEFL etc., I forget the rest). T

My girlfriend recently enrolled in a university and one of the requirements was a certificate from one of the official places (TOEFL etc., I forget the rest). They exist just to leech money off non-native speakers. Anyone can pass an exam as long as they go to the right place and pay the fee, and besides, why do you need a long written and spoken test to test people's English? Someone's level of English is immediately obvious from even a brief conversation. If they can't speak it, they'll fail out after the first exams or learn it anyway. I guess it bothers me even more as someone who wasn't born in an English speaking country but spoke it nearly exclusively after childhood. It's a common sentiment - one of my old history teachers lived in England for 20 or so years, and was asked if he can provide some proof he can speak English for his citizenship. How would someone live in the damn country for 20 years as a teacher and not be able to speak the language?

WalterBright 5y ago
> How would someone live in the damn country for 20 years as a teacher and not be able to speak the language? By lying on their resume. That's why people ask questions like that, to uncover frauds.
- dj_mc_merlin 5y ago
  I find it hard to believe one could go through the nationalization procedure and not speak English. It's a very in-person kind of thing, no way to con your way through it really.
Tainnor 5y ago
What's even worse is that these tests (I think except Cambridge English? but very few institutions accept that) expire after two years or so, and they cost a lot of money. I moved to Switzerland to do a master's degree in Germany which was still, essentially, in German. Didn't matter that I'd already read research literature and written term papers in English, I still had to do a TOEFL for no discernible reason. But even worse, should I end up deciding to do another degree somewhere else, I'd just have to do it all over, even though I use English everyday at work. I understand making sure that people speak and understand English properly in an academic setting, but TOEFL etc. are just money machines.

WalterBright 5y ago

> How would someone live in the damn country for 20 years as a teacher and not be able to speak the language? By lying on their resume. That's why people ask questions like that, to uncover frauds.

dj_mc_merlin 5y ago
I find it hard to believe one could go through the nationalization procedure and not speak English. It's a very in-person kind of thing, no way to con your way through it really.

Tainnor 5y ago

What's even worse is that these tests (I think except Cambridge English? but very few institutions accept that) expire after two years or so, and they cost a lot of money. I moved to Switzerland to do a master's degree in Germany which was still, essentially, in German. Didn't matter that I'd already read research literature and written term papers in English, I still had to do a TOEFL for no discernible reason. But even worse, should I end up deciding to do another degree somewhere else, I'd just have to do it all over, even though I use English everyday at work. I understand making sure that people speak and understand English properly in an academic setting, but TOEFL etc. are just money machines.