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My main issue with apps like these is that I don't trust you. The convenience that you provide is not sufficient for me to give you not only access to a signif

My main issue with apps like these is that I don't trust you. The convenience that you provide is not sufficient for me to give you not only access to a significant part of my financial information but nearly unrestricted access to my money. In addition to that, not only do you have access to it but any of the services that you might use. And I probably don't trust them either. Furthermore, I'm also deeply skeptical of services that require you to top up an account and then use that balance. This is mainly because of the way these types of accounts are (ab)used in South East Asia. (eg. if you top up that account and use that balance to buy something, you wont ever be able to get a refund in money, it'll only ever be refunded to that account) Besides the fact that in many cases you have limited access to your own money. With that said, given that I'm probably a bit more privacy conscious than an average user given I'm in tech I'm probably not your target market so my feedback might be nearly irrelevant. Btw when I shared a house, I had an Excel sheet where I put the bills and rent as they came in. A few days before rent was due I'd remind everyone that the sheet has been updated and when everyone paid their share I'd pay all the bills. I definitely understand how your solution could be a selling point if you live with people you don't trust or are unreliable.

tonikami 5y ago
Appreciate the feedback! You are not required to top up your YSplit balance. You can link a debit/credit card to the app, and when your share is due, you can pay your share through that. The in-app balance is simply a budgeting feature that you can use to set money aside for your future bills. In terms of your privacy concerns, while we've worked really hard to make our service secure and leverage trusted security storage providers, we know there'll still be some people who are not ok with sharing their bill account credentials. This is why we are very excited to be developing the YSplit card. You can essentially get a card and use it to split & pay the bills without handing over any account details. There'll be some limitations, most notably not seeing all your bill data in one place, but the splitting feature will work the same.
- rognjen 5y ago
  I didn't mean privacy and security as in "you're gonna get hacked" but "you'll sell my data and know things you don't need to know". You (and your providers) will not only know my spending but who I share a house/utilities/services with. And personally I place quite a high value on that data (as do others who trade it)
  - bingdig 5y ago
    Can confirm, as someone who works in the alternative data industry this service, if widely used, will create a dataset that can easily be sold for >$1M/year to hedge funds, credit agencies, etc. I've seen quite a few companies that operate in this financial intermediary space and start off with strong privacy ideals, and then when they're getting traction and are raising a Series A/B can't resist adding a cool $5-10M ARR with near zero marginal cost by selling out.
  - chrischen 5y ago
    I don’t see how this is a serious concern, even if they do it. I would just consider it part of the price of the service.
    - choward 5y ago
      That's the entire point. I don't want to "pay" with my data and have no idea how it's being used. It's why I pretty much don't use any online services unless forced to.
      - chrischen 5y ago
        My point exactly: if that was a serious concern, Facebook would have no users.
        rognjen 5y ago
        > I would just consider it part of the price of the service. reply Which would make the service too expensive for me. > Facebook I don't use Facebook for the same reason. But as I mentioned in the top level comment, this is a concern for me because I'm probably more privacy-conscious then an average user so I might not be exactly the type of user they're building for.
- dheera 5y ago
  An interesting side use case you might want to consider: My previous 2 apartments I lived in required paying rent by paper check, delivered to their office, which was very annoying. They didn't take any forms of electronic payment, and mailing a check is a pain for millenials like me who don't usually stock envelopes or stamps. However, they also didn't take checks written by anyone other than the leasee, so that could be something that might need to be negotiated.
  - landon_vh 5y ago
    So this isn't a feature we have advertised on our site yet but we do support check payments on YSplit. We collect the funds before and auto send the check to the landlord to arrive 1 day before the due date. Landlords are currently not complaining that the checks are sent from us but thanks for bringing up this edge case. Super helpful to know as we grow.
- jjj123 5y ago
  Relatedly, I had the same concern as the OP (not about security, but about privacy and selling my data), and I read the “security” page on your site and totally balked at how there was not one word about selling data. I would drop that whole page, honestly. It’s written in a pretty technical way and didn’t make me feel any safer, and on top of that made me feel like you all were deflecting from the bigger and more immediate threat, data selling.
Dyac 5y ago
Agree completely. When I was a student there were a bunch of these companies. One of my friends used one for he and his housemates to split their bills. After a year, the company stopped paying the gas and electrical companies but didn't stop taking money from the students. The company then folded, closing their offices. My friends were left with bailiffs and debt collectors chasing them for the unpaid gas and electricity bills (about £2500 iirc) which they had to pay. I would never recommend anyone insert middlemen in financial transactions if at all possible.
barbazoo 5y ago
Same here. First of all that reliance on people giving you access to their accounts is super sketchy in my opinion. I used Mint for a long time until I realized how insane it is for them to be able to access my bank and investment accounts. Good for them if they find people paying for their service but same as you, I don't see how this can't be solved with a spreadsheet. I find services like these bothersome for a different reason. A major selling point is catering to people that have difficulty getting the cash together to front a utility bill or rent. For every app that exploits people's inability to manage their finances I wish we'd see an app that teaches financial literacy and responsibility.
- landon_vh 5y ago
  I understand that some apps try and exploit bad behaviours and these apps really annoy me to my core. They know who they are. However that is not the case with YSplit. We believe that the current process of one person managing the house finances for everyone is backwards. There is no incentive to do this and there is really only negatives that come with it. Everyone being responsible for their share of the bill teaches roommates to be more financially responsible than to allow one roommate to take care of it all and carry the burden. You nailed it when you mentioned the our biggest selling point helps those who struggle to get the cash together or front the payment. Roommates who normally relied on that one roommate are now learning how to budget better on a monthly basis for the utilities etc.
- rajansaini 5y ago
  > I wish we'd see an app that teaches financial literacy and responsibility I agree with you 100%. I'm not sure how feasible it is to build a business around it, though, since monetization techniques are likely to turn people off or harm the product. Bogleheads is an awesome existing resource, in case anyone's interested

tonikami 5y ago

Appreciate the feedback! You are not required to top up your YSplit balance. You can link a debit/credit card to the app, and when your share is due, you can pay your share through that. The in-app balance is simply a budgeting feature that you can use to set money aside for your future bills. In terms of your privacy concerns, while we've worked really hard to make our service secure and leverage trusted security storage providers, we know there'll still be some people who are not ok with sharing their bill account credentials. This is why we are very excited to be developing the YSplit card. You can essentially get a card and use it to split & pay the bills without handing over any account details. There'll be some limitations, most notably not seeing all your bill data in one place, but the splitting feature will work the same.

rognjen 5y ago
I didn't mean privacy and security as in "you're gonna get hacked" but "you'll sell my data and know things you don't need to know". You (and your providers) will not only know my spending but who I share a house/utilities/services with. And personally I place quite a high value on that data (as do others who trade it)
- bingdig 5y ago
  Can confirm, as someone who works in the alternative data industry this service, if widely used, will create a dataset that can easily be sold for >$1M/year to hedge funds, credit agencies, etc. I've seen quite a few companies that operate in this financial intermediary space and start off with strong privacy ideals, and then when they're getting traction and are raising a Series A/B can't resist adding a cool $5-10M ARR with near zero marginal cost by selling out.
- chrischen 5y ago
  I don’t see how this is a serious concern, even if they do it. I would just consider it part of the price of the service.
  - choward 5y ago
    That's the entire point. I don't want to "pay" with my data and have no idea how it's being used. It's why I pretty much don't use any online services unless forced to.
    - chrischen 5y ago
      My point exactly: if that was a serious concern, Facebook would have no users.
      - rognjen 5y ago
        > I would just consider it part of the price of the service. reply Which would make the service too expensive for me. > Facebook I don't use Facebook for the same reason. But as I mentioned in the top level comment, this is a concern for me because I'm probably more privacy-conscious then an average user so I might not be exactly the type of user they're building for.
dheera 5y ago
An interesting side use case you might want to consider: My previous 2 apartments I lived in required paying rent by paper check, delivered to their office, which was very annoying. They didn't take any forms of electronic payment, and mailing a check is a pain for millenials like me who don't usually stock envelopes or stamps. However, they also didn't take checks written by anyone other than the leasee, so that could be something that might need to be negotiated.
- landon_vh 5y ago
  So this isn't a feature we have advertised on our site yet but we do support check payments on YSplit. We collect the funds before and auto send the check to the landlord to arrive 1 day before the due date. Landlords are currently not complaining that the checks are sent from us but thanks for bringing up this edge case. Super helpful to know as we grow.
jjj123 5y ago
Relatedly, I had the same concern as the OP (not about security, but about privacy and selling my data), and I read the “security” page on your site and totally balked at how there was not one word about selling data. I would drop that whole page, honestly. It’s written in a pretty technical way and didn’t make me feel any safer, and on top of that made me feel like you all were deflecting from the bigger and more immediate threat, data selling.

Dyac 5y ago

Agree completely. When I was a student there were a bunch of these companies. One of my friends used one for he and his housemates to split their bills. After a year, the company stopped paying the gas and electrical companies but didn't stop taking money from the students. The company then folded, closing their offices. My friends were left with bailiffs and debt collectors chasing them for the unpaid gas and electricity bills (about £2500 iirc) which they had to pay. I would never recommend anyone insert middlemen in financial transactions if at all possible.

barbazoo 5y ago

Same here. First of all that reliance on people giving you access to their accounts is super sketchy in my opinion. I used Mint for a long time until I realized how insane it is for them to be able to access my bank and investment accounts. Good for them if they find people paying for their service but same as you, I don't see how this can't be solved with a spreadsheet. I find services like these bothersome for a different reason. A major selling point is catering to people that have difficulty getting the cash together to front a utility bill or rent. For every app that exploits people's inability to manage their finances I wish we'd see an app that teaches financial literacy and responsibility.

landon_vh 5y ago
I understand that some apps try and exploit bad behaviours and these apps really annoy me to my core. They know who they are. However that is not the case with YSplit. We believe that the current process of one person managing the house finances for everyone is backwards. There is no incentive to do this and there is really only negatives that come with it. Everyone being responsible for their share of the bill teaches roommates to be more financially responsible than to allow one roommate to take care of it all and carry the burden. You nailed it when you mentioned the our biggest selling point helps those who struggle to get the cash together or front the payment. Roommates who normally relied on that one roommate are now learning how to budget better on a monthly basis for the utilities etc.
rajansaini 5y ago
> I wish we'd see an app that teaches financial literacy and responsibility I agree with you 100%. I'm not sure how feasible it is to build a business around it, though, since monetization techniques are likely to turn people off or harm the product. Bogleheads is an awesome existing resource, in case anyone's interested