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"A native English speaker would never have said that... unless they had received a really expensive education." There's the opposite problem, too, where people

"A native English speaker would never have said that... unless they had received a really expensive education." There's the opposite problem, too, where people with poor educations will try to use fancy words to impress people (but often wind up just sounding pretentious). One of my pet peeves is hearing people using the word "utilize". Just say "use"! It sounds far less pretentious and means the exact same thing. I intentionally try to simplify my word choice, even though my vocabulary is much larger than what I use in writing or daily speech, and even when the first word that comes to mind is long/fancy word. I try to use a five cent word when even a five dollar word would do. It sounds more natural, and you don't come off sounding like you're trying to impress anyone (which is usually counterproductive if you're using vocabulary to do it).

oblio 5y ago
In Romanian "a utiliza" is "to use". I imagine it's the same in other Latin languages. So, see the original comment :-)
- pmoriarty 5y ago
  I'm talking about native English speakers. It's not as grating if it comes from a non-native speaker, who you know hasn't mastered the language yet. When a native speaker says it, it feels like they should know better and are intentionally trying to make themselves sound smart.
  - kilbuz 5y ago
    I think a lot of the usage you reference is blindly picked up in corporate environments, and has little to do with trying to 'sound smart'. My wife laughs at my vocabulary on my Zoom calls. After listening to myself, I have to agree.
    - oblio 5y ago
      So what I'm hearing is that your ask for everyone is to not leverage obvious linguistic synergies in order to enhance the listening experience?
- Mediterraneo10 5y ago
  Romanian is an example of the exact same thing. It did not inherit a utiliza from Latin, rather it borrowed it in the 19th century from French utiliser, because French was viewed as the posh and intellectual language then. Before that, for ‘to use’ Romanians just used the (Greek loan)word a folosi, which is generally more common than a utiliza even today.
- fmihaila 5y ago
  I think a better correspondence is "a utiliza" -> "to utilize" and "a folosi" -> "to use". Edit: Mediterraneo10 explains it better.
jodrellblank 5y ago
> Just say "use"! It sounds far less pretentious and means the exact same thing. It's a pet peeve as well, but they don't mean the exact same thing; you "use" a doorstop to hold a door open, you "utilize" a shoe as a doorstop. "util - ize", to turn something into a utility, in a way that it wasn't before. Use an umbrella, utilize a leaf as an umbrella. Use email, utilize email as file transfer system. https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/is-utilize-a-word-worth-using https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/is-utilize-a-w...
- pmoriarty 5y ago
  "you "use" a doorstop to hold a door open, you "utilize" a shoe as a doorstop." Really? Because I'd use a shoe as a doorstop. I'd never "utilize" anything. Update: Well, on doing a bit of research in to this instead of just using my intuition, I found that you're absolutely right about the special meaning of the word "utilize", according to a number of sources like [1]. I guess I must have been too hard on those people who were properly using the word. Still, a survey of articles on these terms shows I'm far from the only one for whom the word "utilize" sounds pretentious, so in ordinary, non-specialist language I'd still err on the side of caution and use the word "use", which can in fact be used correctly everywhere "utilize" is used. There's a good discussion of various points of view on this issue in [2]. [1] - https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/is-utilize-a-word-worth-using https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/is-utilize-a-w... [2] - https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/19811/using-utilize-instead-of-use https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/19811/using-util...
35fbe7d3d5b9 5y ago
The concept of "U English" vs. "non-U English" was written about in the '50s. Don't say "pardon?", say "what?" or you'll be marked as a commoner ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_and_non-U_English https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_and_non-U_English
- pmoriarty 5y ago
  The US has had a long history of anti-intellctualism[1], and in the 1950's "egghead" was popularized as a term of abuse against intellectuals.[2] It's possible that the popular disdain towards the use of long words in the US is related to this anti-intellectual attitude. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-intellectualism_in_American_Life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-intellectualism_in_Americ... [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egghead https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egghead
WalterBright 5y ago
> It sounds more natural Weeeell, there's more to it than that. English has a rich vocabulary, why not use it? Just like there is more to a palette than primary colors, why restrict yourself? Me, I enjoy using "five dollar words" where they fit, I also enjoy inserting slang, obscure puns, deliberate misspellings, foreign words, all to add some texture and color. Wakarimasu ka? My father was felled by Alzheimers. What was interesting is his sentences became an incomprehensible jumble of words, but the words were from a well educated man's vocabulary. He never sounded pretentious, it was just how he talked. (My family does not hail from English aristocracy as far as I can discern. He was the first to attend college.)
- pmoriarty 5y ago
  "I enjoy using "five dollar words" where they fit, I also enjoy inserting slang, obscure puns, deliberate misspellings, foreign words, all to add some texture and color. Wakarimasu ka?" This reminds me of William Gibson's Sprawl slang, of Anthony Burgess' Nadsat slang from A Clockwork Orange, and of Cockney rhyming slang, thieves' cant, etc. That sort of use can have a certain appealing charm to it in small doses (or might be annoying, depending on who you talk to and what you say), but unfortunately I don't think most users of "utilize" and the like rise to that level.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    Personally I don't care to utilize "utilize", either. It smacks of annoying bureaucratic slang, like "synergy", "incentivize", "leverage". I'm bemused by cop jargon like "vehicle". Even journalists, when covering crimes, slip into saying "vehicle". > rhyming slang I like dazzuble dazzutch, but am not very good at it, fo shizzle.
    - ghaff 5y ago
      Yep. I'm not sure there isn't ever a place for utilize; it's not 100% interchangeable with use. But, yes, it's part of a list of business and related jargon that is usually best avoided. Sometimes there are legitimate synergies. And sometimes leverage does actually apply--as in getting outsized benefits from using something. But, yes, should probably be used a lot less than they are.
mrec 5y ago
> I try to use a five cent word when even a five dollar word would do "Short words are best, and old words when short are best of all." -- Winston Churchill
- ithkuil 5y ago
  Minuscle locutions are preferable, and superannuated locutions are pre-eminent
fenomas 5y ago
> pet peeves is hearing people using the word "utilize" This battle is lost, but mine is "proceeded to". People seem to feel like it makes them sound more official - "He proceeded to enter the room, and he then proceeded to sit down." Once you start noticing it it's everywhere.
- pessimizer 5y ago
  It's one of the things people do when they're making fun of cop-speak. Cops are the best example of people who are trying to make what they say sound official, but instead just make it long-winded and bizarre.
jll29 5y ago
When I first studied at an English university (having been halfway through a linguistics program in Germany) my fellow students said I "sound like a book". As being told that is embarrassing, one quickly adjusts... (Nice examples here on HN, like "utilize the periphery of the barbecue" [to place one more sausage on it].) But a latter move to the US led to a repeat ("Hey dude, you talk like an alien?! Goofball!!") although the British accent was well liked.
FabHK 5y ago
> Just say "use"! It sounds far less pretentious and means the exact same thing. I shall avail myself of that advice.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
andyana 5y ago
Would you say you are trying to foster communication by using the lowest common denominator with regards to your choice in words?
jjav 5y ago
> try to use fancy words As a non-native speaker of English, one that I have never grasped is the overuse of the word "vehicle" to mean "car". It's extremely common, but not sure why. It's just a car, why call it a "vehicle"? I understand it in the very generalized context of, say, the DMV. It's the dept. of motor vehicles because they handle cars but also trucks, vans, commercial haulers, even boats. But not sure why someone says "I bought a vehicle" when really they just bought a car.
- hnick 5y ago
  People here wouldn't do that so maybe it's more of a US thing. It seems to be a common affectation from police to sound authoritative by using words like this, and that's all over the news and TV. Maybe it leaked from there into the general population.
- Kihashi 5y ago
  I'd use "vehicle" to be more general than "car". If I just bought one, I'd know whether I bought car, truck, SUV(ehicle), etc. Although, in some cases, you might say "car" generically if the distinction doesn't matter. Also, "vehicle" sounds a bit more formal, so if I were giving, say, a deposition, I might say that. I can't say that I think people around here overuse the term. (Midwest USA)

oblio 5y ago

In Romanian "a utiliza" is "to use". I imagine it's the same in other Latin languages. So, see the original comment :-)

pmoriarty 5y ago
I'm talking about native English speakers. It's not as grating if it comes from a non-native speaker, who you know hasn't mastered the language yet. When a native speaker says it, it feels like they should know better and are intentionally trying to make themselves sound smart.
- kilbuz 5y ago
  I think a lot of the usage you reference is blindly picked up in corporate environments, and has little to do with trying to 'sound smart'. My wife laughs at my vocabulary on my Zoom calls. After listening to myself, I have to agree.
  - oblio 5y ago
    So what I'm hearing is that your ask for everyone is to not leverage obvious linguistic synergies in order to enhance the listening experience?
Mediterraneo10 5y ago
Romanian is an example of the exact same thing. It did not inherit a utiliza from Latin, rather it borrowed it in the 19th century from French utiliser, because French was viewed as the posh and intellectual language then. Before that, for ‘to use’ Romanians just used the (Greek loan)word a folosi, which is generally more common than a utiliza even today.
fmihaila 5y ago
I think a better correspondence is "a utiliza" -> "to utilize" and "a folosi" -> "to use". Edit: Mediterraneo10 explains it better.

jodrellblank 5y ago

> Just say "use"! It sounds far less pretentious and means the exact same thing. It's a pet peeve as well, but they don't mean the exact same thing; you "use" a doorstop to hold a door open, you "utilize" a shoe as a doorstop. "util - ize", to turn something into a utility, in a way that it wasn't before. Use an umbrella, utilize a leaf as an umbrella. Use email, utilize email as file transfer system. https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/is-utilize-a-word-worth-using https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/is-utilize-a-w...

pmoriarty 5y ago
"you "use" a doorstop to hold a door open, you "utilize" a shoe as a doorstop." Really? Because I'd use a shoe as a doorstop. I'd never "utilize" anything. Update: Well, on doing a bit of research in to this instead of just using my intuition, I found that you're absolutely right about the special meaning of the word "utilize", according to a number of sources like [1]. I guess I must have been too hard on those people who were properly using the word. Still, a survey of articles on these terms shows I'm far from the only one for whom the word "utilize" sounds pretentious, so in ordinary, non-specialist language I'd still err on the side of caution and use the word "use", which can in fact be used correctly everywhere "utilize" is used. There's a good discussion of various points of view on this issue in [2]. [1] - https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/is-utilize-a-word-worth-using https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/is-utilize-a-w... [2] - https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/19811/using-utilize-instead-of-use https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/19811/using-util...

35fbe7d3d5b9 5y ago

The concept of "U English" vs. "non-U English" was written about in the '50s. Don't say "pardon?", say "what?" or you'll be marked as a commoner ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_and_non-U_English https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_and_non-U_English

pmoriarty 5y ago
The US has had a long history of anti-intellctualism[1], and in the 1950's "egghead" was popularized as a term of abuse against intellectuals.[2] It's possible that the popular disdain towards the use of long words in the US is related to this anti-intellectual attitude. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-intellectualism_in_American_Life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-intellectualism_in_Americ... [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egghead https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egghead

WalterBright 5y ago

> It sounds more natural Weeeell, there's more to it than that. English has a rich vocabulary, why not use it? Just like there is more to a palette than primary colors, why restrict yourself? Me, I enjoy using "five dollar words" where they fit, I also enjoy inserting slang, obscure puns, deliberate misspellings, foreign words, all to add some texture and color. Wakarimasu ka? My father was felled by Alzheimers. What was interesting is his sentences became an incomprehensible jumble of words, but the words were from a well educated man's vocabulary. He never sounded pretentious, it was just how he talked. (My family does not hail from English aristocracy as far as I can discern. He was the first to attend college.)

pmoriarty 5y ago
"I enjoy using "five dollar words" where they fit, I also enjoy inserting slang, obscure puns, deliberate misspellings, foreign words, all to add some texture and color. Wakarimasu ka?" This reminds me of William Gibson's Sprawl slang, of Anthony Burgess' Nadsat slang from A Clockwork Orange, and of Cockney rhyming slang, thieves' cant, etc. That sort of use can have a certain appealing charm to it in small doses (or might be annoying, depending on who you talk to and what you say), but unfortunately I don't think most users of "utilize" and the like rise to that level.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  Personally I don't care to utilize "utilize", either. It smacks of annoying bureaucratic slang, like "synergy", "incentivize", "leverage". I'm bemused by cop jargon like "vehicle". Even journalists, when covering crimes, slip into saying "vehicle". > rhyming slang I like dazzuble dazzutch, but am not very good at it, fo shizzle.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    Yep. I'm not sure there isn't ever a place for utilize; it's not 100% interchangeable with use. But, yes, it's part of a list of business and related jargon that is usually best avoided. Sometimes there are legitimate synergies. And sometimes leverage does actually apply--as in getting outsized benefits from using something. But, yes, should probably be used a lot less than they are.

mrec 5y ago

> I try to use a five cent word when even a five dollar word would do "Short words are best, and old words when short are best of all." -- Winston Churchill

ithkuil 5y ago
Minuscle locutions are preferable, and superannuated locutions are pre-eminent

fenomas 5y ago

> pet peeves is hearing people using the word "utilize" This battle is lost, but mine is "proceeded to". People seem to feel like it makes them sound more official - "He proceeded to enter the room, and he then proceeded to sit down." Once you start noticing it it's everywhere.

pessimizer 5y ago
It's one of the things people do when they're making fun of cop-speak. Cops are the best example of people who are trying to make what they say sound official, but instead just make it long-winded and bizarre.

jll29 5y ago

When I first studied at an English university (having been halfway through a linguistics program in Germany) my fellow students said I "sound like a book". As being told that is embarrassing, one quickly adjusts... (Nice examples here on HN, like "utilize the periphery of the barbecue" [to place one more sausage on it].) But a latter move to the US led to a repeat ("Hey dude, you talk like an alien?! Goofball!!") although the British accent was well liked.

FabHK 5y ago

> Just say "use"! It sounds far less pretentious and means the exact same thing. I shall avail myself of that advice.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

andyana 5y ago

Would you say you are trying to foster communication by using the lowest common denominator with regards to your choice in words?

jjav 5y ago

> try to use fancy words As a non-native speaker of English, one that I have never grasped is the overuse of the word "vehicle" to mean "car". It's extremely common, but not sure why. It's just a car, why call it a "vehicle"? I understand it in the very generalized context of, say, the DMV. It's the dept. of motor vehicles because they handle cars but also trucks, vans, commercial haulers, even boats. But not sure why someone says "I bought a vehicle" when really they just bought a car.

hnick 5y ago
People here wouldn't do that so maybe it's more of a US thing. It seems to be a common affectation from police to sound authoritative by using words like this, and that's all over the news and TV. Maybe it leaked from there into the general population.
Kihashi 5y ago
I'd use "vehicle" to be more general than "car". If I just bought one, I'd know whether I bought car, truck, SUV(ehicle), etc. Although, in some cases, you might say "car" generically if the distinction doesn't matter. Also, "vehicle" sounds a bit more formal, so if I were giving, say, a deposition, I might say that. I can't say that I think people around here overuse the term. (Midwest USA)