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* Shoes: VivoBarefoot Magna Trail II FG (https://www.vivobarefoot.com/us/magna-trail-ii-fg-mens https://www.vivobarefoot.com/us/magna-trail-ii-fg-mens). If you

* Shoes: VivoBarefoot Magna Trail II FG (https://www.vivobarefoot.com/us/magna-trail-ii-fg-mens https://www.vivobarefoot.com/us/magna-trail-ii-fg-mens). If you enjoy barefoot shoes, these things are fantastic. * For the table saw, this sawdust bag (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bosch-Table-Saw-Dust-Collector-System-TS1004/203688711 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bosch-Table-Saw-Dust-Collector-S...) does a surprisingly good job for $11, and this set of Dado blades (https://www.homedepot.com/p/DIABLO-8-in-x-12-Teeth-Stacked-Dado-Saw-Blade-Set-DD208H/100086071 https://www.homedepot.com/p/DIABLO-8-in-x-12-Teeth-Stacked-D...) has saved me a ton of time with tongue-and-groove work.

coldpie 5y ago
I'm on the market for a pair of decent camping/hiking shoes/boots. I had been planning on getting some REI pair, but you've got me curious about these. It seems odd to me that something that claims to be thin and let you feel things would be good for hiking. Can you elaborate on that? I think I would want protection from rocks and stuff, so it seems bad for that?
- arran-nz 5y ago
  I hike regularly with Vivo's - Also the Lems Boulderboot when the temperature permits. Your feet take a beating in the first few weeks but you will build a tolerance. In my opinion, they're fantastic for hiking as you feel the ground beneath you. Being more aware of the ground surface increases your step precision as well as your balance. I highly recommend giving a pair a go!
- jorisg 5y ago
  I've got the same exact pair - they are awesome, super comfortable and flexible. It's important to note that as for any thin-sole shoe, it takes time to get used to what is much more like walking barefoot - your foot placement and posture changes, as you use the ball of your foot and your calf more. Think of it as the difference between running with a heel/neutral strike with padded running shoes and a toe-strike when running barefoot. Re. longer hikes and rocks, the sole is well protected and quite tough - they are indeed built for hiking; consider walking briefer hikes in them for a while so that your foot / calf muscles to get used to the difference before taking on long and more exhausting hikes that increase the chances of a twisted ankle.
- hairofadog 5y ago
  Occasionally I'll be walking and step on a single pebble on the sidewalk in just the right place and I can feel that for sure, but on a trail that's less of a problem because you're not pressing that pebble against pavement, and the shoes aren't so thin that it's like there's nothing there – they definitely provide some protection. For larger rocks, like a rock scramble, I find it's nice to be able to feel it a little more – I'm not sure if it's true, but it makes me feel I have more control and better balance. Thus far the rare "single pebble on the sidewalk" has been the only issue. I'm not exactly a shoe wonk, but I think the idea of barefoot shoes is to encourage you to put more force on the ball of your foot as opposed to the heel, which I think is meant to be better for posture and your knees. All I know is I love them, and I think I'd have trouble going back to shoes with thick outsoles. If you're thinking of trying a pair, Vivobarefoot has a pretty good return policy (100 days no questions asked) so it might be worth giving it a shot. That said, it's definitely an acquired taste and I don't think they're better for everyone. My partner hates minimal shoes and just bought for herself a pair of Hokas, which to my eyes have a comically large outsole. Ultimately it's about finding the best match for your body.
  - flanbiscuit 5y ago
    I am genuinely curious about these shoes but cautious as my left ankle gives me problems and I find that I'm most comfortable when I'm wearing my thick Merrel hiking books. I use insoles in all my shoes because of it and I feel like it would defeat the purpose if I used insoles in these. Their Tracker II Fg Mens looks good too
    - carpdiem 5y ago
      Ankles can be tricky. Most "barefoot" style shoes have essentially zero ankle support. What ends up happening for most people is that if you ease into them, and use them regularly, you end up building up substantially more muscle in your foot and lower leg which ends up being the "thing that gives you ankle stability". If you've got really serious ankle problems / past injuries / etc, that might not be a plausible approach for you. But if it's just a case of your ankle being a little unstable every so often, it might be worth trying the barefoot shoe approach, and treat it like building up new muscles in any other context: start slow and easy and try to be consistent about it.
- bionhoward 5y ago
  Check out wolverine boots, depending on your needs you could get a slip on with a composite toe, they're much lighter than steel toes and waterproof
- 1shooner 5y ago
  I wanted something more minimal than conventional boots but I knew I didn't want to go as far as Vivos. I settled on these Solomons[0], and they're possibly the most comfortable shoes I've ever owned. Not waterproof, no real ankle support/bracing, but very light with plenty of shock absorption and sole stability. I do have minimalist sandals from Xero[1], which are great for camp shoes. 0. https://www.rei.com/product/122170/salomon-x-ultra-3-low-aero-hiking-shoes-mens https://www.rei.com/product/122170/salomon-x-ultra-3-low-aer... 1. https://xeroshoes.com/shop/gender/mens/ztrek-men/ https://xeroshoes.com/shop/gender/mens/ztrek-men/
Random_Person 5y ago
Thanks for that bag link! I bought one that doesn't have a zipper and I hate it.
danShumway 5y ago
I'm always very hesitant to recommend "barefoot" shoes since everyone's feet are different and I know some people who have had horrible experiences with them. They definitely are not a magic solution for everyone, and for some people they'll be actively harmful. But for whatever it's worth, switching to VivoBarefoot (Primus Lite) resulted in a massive decrease in foot pain for me. My shin splints basically vanished. I've had them for maybe a year and a half, and I am never going back to traditional shoes.
- Rendello 5y ago
  > I know some people who have had horrible experiences with them. I'm getting mine in in a couple days. What issues have you seen people have most with them, out of curiosity? (I'm assuming the use case was for running and not the hiking stuff in one of the sibling threads)
  - danShumway 5y ago
    If your feet need support, they don't provide support. So pretty much what you would expect: ankle pain, shin splints, soreness, etc... My problem was the opposite: I got shin splints even after spending a ton of time stretching my legs before and after long walks, running. But I started to notice that my feet felt a lot better whenever I was barefoot in my house, and that I had fewer problems during the summer when I was more likely to take long walks in low-support footware like sandals or flip-flops. So when I noticed that the support was the problem and got rid of the shoes that had thick heels and lots of cushioning, that pain went away. Basically, if normal shoes hurt your feet, there's a reasonable chance (but not a guarantee) that barefoot/low-support shoes will be a big improvement. If you normally prefer lots of support to feel comfortable, there's a reasonable chance that these will hurt your feet. There's also a bit of an adjustment period. You do feel more of the ground, and it takes a little while to get used to that. If I step on a really sharp rock, it won't puncture my foot or anything, but I feel it. Your walking/running style ends up changing a bit as well to accommodate less cushioning, you spend more time on the balls of your feet instead of your heels. I haven't taken them hiking, but if I was a hiker I probably would at least consider wearing them over normal boots (or more likely, I'd get an equivalent low-support hiking shoe). I like that my feet are more flexible, I like that I can feel the texture of the ground, it makes me feel more confident and secure when I'm walking over rough terrain -- the same way that I feel more confident manipulating something with my hands if I'm not wearing very thick gloves. But all of that is just me, your results might vary.

coldpie 5y ago

I'm on the market for a pair of decent camping/hiking shoes/boots. I had been planning on getting some REI pair, but you've got me curious about these. It seems odd to me that something that claims to be thin and let you feel things would be good for hiking. Can you elaborate on that? I think I would want protection from rocks and stuff, so it seems bad for that?

arran-nz 5y ago
I hike regularly with Vivo's - Also the Lems Boulderboot when the temperature permits. Your feet take a beating in the first few weeks but you will build a tolerance. In my opinion, they're fantastic for hiking as you feel the ground beneath you. Being more aware of the ground surface increases your step precision as well as your balance. I highly recommend giving a pair a go!
jorisg 5y ago
I've got the same exact pair - they are awesome, super comfortable and flexible. It's important to note that as for any thin-sole shoe, it takes time to get used to what is much more like walking barefoot - your foot placement and posture changes, as you use the ball of your foot and your calf more. Think of it as the difference between running with a heel/neutral strike with padded running shoes and a toe-strike when running barefoot. Re. longer hikes and rocks, the sole is well protected and quite tough - they are indeed built for hiking; consider walking briefer hikes in them for a while so that your foot / calf muscles to get used to the difference before taking on long and more exhausting hikes that increase the chances of a twisted ankle.
hairofadog 5y ago
Occasionally I'll be walking and step on a single pebble on the sidewalk in just the right place and I can feel that for sure, but on a trail that's less of a problem because you're not pressing that pebble against pavement, and the shoes aren't so thin that it's like there's nothing there – they definitely provide some protection. For larger rocks, like a rock scramble, I find it's nice to be able to feel it a little more – I'm not sure if it's true, but it makes me feel I have more control and better balance. Thus far the rare "single pebble on the sidewalk" has been the only issue. I'm not exactly a shoe wonk, but I think the idea of barefoot shoes is to encourage you to put more force on the ball of your foot as opposed to the heel, which I think is meant to be better for posture and your knees. All I know is I love them, and I think I'd have trouble going back to shoes with thick outsoles. If you're thinking of trying a pair, Vivobarefoot has a pretty good return policy (100 days no questions asked) so it might be worth giving it a shot. That said, it's definitely an acquired taste and I don't think they're better for everyone. My partner hates minimal shoes and just bought for herself a pair of Hokas, which to my eyes have a comically large outsole. Ultimately it's about finding the best match for your body.
- flanbiscuit 5y ago
  I am genuinely curious about these shoes but cautious as my left ankle gives me problems and I find that I'm most comfortable when I'm wearing my thick Merrel hiking books. I use insoles in all my shoes because of it and I feel like it would defeat the purpose if I used insoles in these. Their Tracker II Fg Mens looks good too
  - carpdiem 5y ago
    Ankles can be tricky. Most "barefoot" style shoes have essentially zero ankle support. What ends up happening for most people is that if you ease into them, and use them regularly, you end up building up substantially more muscle in your foot and lower leg which ends up being the "thing that gives you ankle stability". If you've got really serious ankle problems / past injuries / etc, that might not be a plausible approach for you. But if it's just a case of your ankle being a little unstable every so often, it might be worth trying the barefoot shoe approach, and treat it like building up new muscles in any other context: start slow and easy and try to be consistent about it.
bionhoward 5y ago
Check out wolverine boots, depending on your needs you could get a slip on with a composite toe, they're much lighter than steel toes and waterproof
1shooner 5y ago
I wanted something more minimal than conventional boots but I knew I didn't want to go as far as Vivos. I settled on these Solomons[0], and they're possibly the most comfortable shoes I've ever owned. Not waterproof, no real ankle support/bracing, but very light with plenty of shock absorption and sole stability. I do have minimalist sandals from Xero[1], which are great for camp shoes. 0. https://www.rei.com/product/122170/salomon-x-ultra-3-low-aero-hiking-shoes-mens https://www.rei.com/product/122170/salomon-x-ultra-3-low-aer... 1. https://xeroshoes.com/shop/gender/mens/ztrek-men/ https://xeroshoes.com/shop/gender/mens/ztrek-men/

Random_Person 5y ago

Thanks for that bag link! I bought one that doesn't have a zipper and I hate it.

danShumway 5y ago

I'm always very hesitant to recommend "barefoot" shoes since everyone's feet are different and I know some people who have had horrible experiences with them. They definitely are not a magic solution for everyone, and for some people they'll be actively harmful. But for whatever it's worth, switching to VivoBarefoot (Primus Lite) resulted in a massive decrease in foot pain for me. My shin splints basically vanished. I've had them for maybe a year and a half, and I am never going back to traditional shoes.

Rendello 5y ago
> I know some people who have had horrible experiences with them. I'm getting mine in in a couple days. What issues have you seen people have most with them, out of curiosity? (I'm assuming the use case was for running and not the hiking stuff in one of the sibling threads)
- danShumway 5y ago
  If your feet need support, they don't provide support. So pretty much what you would expect: ankle pain, shin splints, soreness, etc... My problem was the opposite: I got shin splints even after spending a ton of time stretching my legs before and after long walks, running. But I started to notice that my feet felt a lot better whenever I was barefoot in my house, and that I had fewer problems during the summer when I was more likely to take long walks in low-support footware like sandals or flip-flops. So when I noticed that the support was the problem and got rid of the shoes that had thick heels and lots of cushioning, that pain went away. Basically, if normal shoes hurt your feet, there's a reasonable chance (but not a guarantee) that barefoot/low-support shoes will be a big improvement. If you normally prefer lots of support to feel comfortable, there's a reasonable chance that these will hurt your feet. There's also a bit of an adjustment period. You do feel more of the ground, and it takes a little while to get used to that. If I step on a really sharp rock, it won't puncture my foot or anything, but I feel it. Your walking/running style ends up changing a bit as well to accommodate less cushioning, you spend more time on the balls of your feet instead of your heels. I haven't taken them hiking, but if I was a hiker I probably would at least consider wearing them over normal boots (or more likely, I'd get an equivalent low-support hiking shoe). I like that my feet are more flexible, I like that I can feel the texture of the ground, it makes me feel more confident and secure when I'm walking over rough terrain -- the same way that I feel more confident manipulating something with my hands if I'm not wearing very thick gloves. But all of that is just me, your results might vary.