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It’s surprising seeing an Apple exec say this, after years of messaging around Mac’s security superiority. Also, what does this mean!? > …Mac users … are subj

It’s surprising seeing an Apple exec say this, after years of messaging around Mac’s security superiority. Also, what does this mean!? > …Mac users … are subject to a way less economically motivated attacker base.

ghaff 5y ago
Presumably a much smaller user base than Windows. ADDED: I read it as less economically interesting than other desktop platforms but, reading another comment, he may have been contrasting MacOS with iOS--which probably makes more sense.
- dijit 5y ago
  But iPhones have a much higher install base and have less malware than OSX or windows. Obviously the reason is because it’s locked down- but it belies the point a little to say that something has a large install base therefore it’s attacked more therefor it’s insecure. The opposite should be true but we take it for a given that it can’t be- when we have evidence to the contrary in other areas.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    The statement is a bit confusing but I think he's basically saying that: In spite of the fact that the Mac isn't a particular malware target (presumably because of some combination of its market share/security model), it still gets more malware than iOS does--so applying the MacOS security model to iOS wouldn't work."
joshstrange 5y ago
I assume that means "Since the Mac has less market share, it doesn't have as much focus on hacking it since you will be attacking a smaller slice of the pie (verses something like Windows).
- fdroidmstrrce 5y ago
  And users are significantly less likely to be doing Engineering/finance/etc... And more likely to be on Facebook during a college lecture.
  - nemothekid 5y ago
    >And users are significantly less likely to be doing Engineering/finance/etc Most of Silicon Valley are using macs as well; it’s pretty much the defacto platform for FAANG.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - fdroidmstrrce 5y ago
      Bold claim considering it's for Front end work exclusively. I don't need to tell anyone here backend is all Linux, data is MS or Linux, embedded is never Mac, and (Physical) Engineering is MS. Still front end FAANG is a tiny sliver of the population.
      - nemothekid 5y ago
        I mean it’s a not a claim. At Facebook (backend / production engineering) the vast majority of employees used the company provided MacBook Pros running macOS; not just front end. Similar story at Google. I can’t speak for the rest of the country but most people even at the startups I’ve seen are using MacBook Pros. (FWIW I currently do embedded work on a mac)
        moshmosh 5y ago
        Flyover country checking in. Non- or semi-technical bigcos of the sort with big IT departments who take most of a week to get you your laptop when you start, are almost all Windows but may tolerate some macOS. Technical bigcos are mixed Win/macOS, with the business side preferring Windows and the tech people all on Macs. Smaller tech companies are all Mac, pretty much universally. Every now and then you get the one weirdo whose laptop can never connect to the projector and whose screen sharing always fucks up on calls or takes 5 minutes to get their bluetooth headset working, because they're on Linux (disclaimer: many years ago, I've been that weirdo). I've only seen one shop that was mostly Linux + Windows with little or no Mac presence, and they were in hardware (drivers or proprietary libs for embedded devices can be hard to come by Macs).
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
throw0101a 5y ago
> [...] after years of messaging around Mac’s security superiority. Just because something may be superior does not mean it's (a) perfect or even (b) as good as it could be.
jolux 5y ago
>It’s surprising seeing an Apple exec say this, after years of messaging around Mac’s security superiority. Well, the situation is still not nearly as bad as Windows, though it's arguable how much of that is technical and how much is statistical. >Also, what does this mean!? iOS users vastly outnumber macOS users, and have a much larger market share of smartphones than Macs have of desktops.
dfxm12 5y ago
“Dark Caracal is part of a trend we’ve seen mounting over the past year whereby traditional APT actors are moving toward using mobile as a primary target platform,” said Mike Murray, Vice President of Security Intelligence at Lookout. Phones more reliably have info that attackers are looking for and can exploit or sell, so they are becoming/have become a more coveted target than the desktop. Payment methods, personal info, etc. It's worth pointing out Federighi is comparing Mac users (desktop) to iOS users (mobile). Plus, there are probably more iOS users out there than macOS users. https://www.eff.org/press/releases/eff-and-lookout-uncover-new-malware-espionage-campaign-infecting-thousands-around https://www.eff.org/press/releases/eff-and-lookout-uncover-n...
m12k 5y ago
>Also, what does this mean!? >> …Mac users … are subject to a way less economically motivated attacker base. It means there are much fewer Mac users than iOS users so there's a bigger economic reward for bypassing iOS security (plus iOS also comes with more ways to exploit hacked devices economically, such as sending texts to for-pay numbers, intercepting security tokens for account take-over, Apple Pay and more)

ghaff 5y ago

Presumably a much smaller user base than Windows. ADDED: I read it as less economically interesting than other desktop platforms but, reading another comment, he may have been contrasting MacOS with iOS--which probably makes more sense.

dijit 5y ago
But iPhones have a much higher install base and have less malware than OSX or windows. Obviously the reason is because it’s locked down- but it belies the point a little to say that something has a large install base therefore it’s attacked more therefor it’s insecure. The opposite should be true but we take it for a given that it can’t be- when we have evidence to the contrary in other areas.
- ghaff 5y ago
  The statement is a bit confusing but I think he's basically saying that: In spite of the fact that the Mac isn't a particular malware target (presumably because of some combination of its market share/security model), it still gets more malware than iOS does--so applying the MacOS security model to iOS wouldn't work."

joshstrange 5y ago

I assume that means "Since the Mac has less market share, it doesn't have as much focus on hacking it since you will be attacking a smaller slice of the pie (verses something like Windows).

fdroidmstrrce 5y ago
And users are significantly less likely to be doing Engineering/finance/etc... And more likely to be on Facebook during a college lecture.
- nemothekid 5y ago
  >And users are significantly less likely to be doing Engineering/finance/etc Most of Silicon Valley are using macs as well; it’s pretty much the defacto platform for FAANG.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - fdroidmstrrce 5y ago
    Bold claim considering it's for Front end work exclusively. I don't need to tell anyone here backend is all Linux, data is MS or Linux, embedded is never Mac, and (Physical) Engineering is MS. Still front end FAANG is a tiny sliver of the population.
    - nemothekid 5y ago
      I mean it’s a not a claim. At Facebook (backend / production engineering) the vast majority of employees used the company provided MacBook Pros running macOS; not just front end. Similar story at Google. I can’t speak for the rest of the country but most people even at the startups I’ve seen are using MacBook Pros. (FWIW I currently do embedded work on a mac)
      - moshmosh 5y ago
        Flyover country checking in. Non- or semi-technical bigcos of the sort with big IT departments who take most of a week to get you your laptop when you start, are almost all Windows but may tolerate some macOS. Technical bigcos are mixed Win/macOS, with the business side preferring Windows and the tech people all on Macs. Smaller tech companies are all Mac, pretty much universally. Every now and then you get the one weirdo whose laptop can never connect to the projector and whose screen sharing always fucks up on calls or takes 5 minutes to get their bluetooth headset working, because they're on Linux (disclaimer: many years ago, I've been that weirdo). I've only seen one shop that was mostly Linux + Windows with little or no Mac presence, and they were in hardware (drivers or proprietary libs for embedded devices can be hard to come by Macs).

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

throw0101a 5y ago

> [...] after years of messaging around Mac’s security superiority. Just because something may be superior does not mean it's (a) perfect or even (b) as good as it could be.

jolux 5y ago

>It’s surprising seeing an Apple exec say this, after years of messaging around Mac’s security superiority. Well, the situation is still not nearly as bad as Windows, though it's arguable how much of that is technical and how much is statistical. >Also, what does this mean!? iOS users vastly outnumber macOS users, and have a much larger market share of smartphones than Macs have of desktops.

dfxm12 5y ago

“Dark Caracal is part of a trend we’ve seen mounting over the past year whereby traditional APT actors are moving toward using mobile as a primary target platform,” said Mike Murray, Vice President of Security Intelligence at Lookout. Phones more reliably have info that attackers are looking for and can exploit or sell, so they are becoming/have become a more coveted target than the desktop. Payment methods, personal info, etc. It's worth pointing out Federighi is comparing Mac users (desktop) to iOS users (mobile). Plus, there are probably more iOS users out there than macOS users. https://www.eff.org/press/releases/eff-and-lookout-uncover-new-malware-espionage-campaign-infecting-thousands-around https://www.eff.org/press/releases/eff-and-lookout-uncover-n...

m12k 5y ago

>Also, what does this mean!? >> …Mac users … are subject to a way less economically motivated attacker base. It means there are much fewer Mac users than iOS users so there's a bigger economic reward for bypassing iOS security (plus iOS also comes with more ways to exploit hacked devices economically, such as sending texts to for-pay numbers, intercepting security tokens for account take-over, Apple Pay and more)