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That's interesting. I'm a portuguese language native, and I can relate, but not because we talk like this in portuguese: > "move the burgers to the periphery o

• chris_j 5y ago
  > That's interesting. I'm a portuguese language native, and I can relate, but not because we talk like this in portuguese: The chap in question was from Portugal. If I understand correctly from your website, you're from Brazil, right? Is there any difference between how that word would be used in Brazilian vs European Portuguese?
  • ORioN63 5y ago
    I'm from Portugal. I'm not aware of any difference regarding that word in particular, but tbh I wouldn't know. I'm always surprised with some of the differences I find from time to time. I can tell you though, that using the word "periferia" is actually common in some place (although a bit rare in most). It's mostly used as a synonym for 'around the borders'. The example you've mentioned: "move the burgers to the periphery of the barbecue", actually seems perfectly fine. It seems a little bit over-detailed, I guess that a bit context-dependent but I wouldn't bat an eye to the equivalent of "move them to the periphery". From what I recall 'periferia' is also commonly used in TV news.
    • kelnos 5y ago
      In case it wasn't clear (I don't think anyone has mentioned this, but maybe I missed it), it's not that "periphery" is overly-detailed, it's just an overly-formal, uncommon word. I think the more common phrase would be "move the burgers to the side of the barbecue". "Edge" might also be used too, which is probably a little clearer.
  • tcgv 5y ago
    That's right, I'm from Brazil! The meaning is the same, both in Brazil and in Portugal. As a curiosity the two countries (along with others) are part of the Portuguese Language Orthographic Agreement of 1990 [1] whose purpose was to create a unified orthography for the Portuguese language, to be used by all the countries that have Portuguese as their official language. Nonetheless there is a lot of differences in usage, mostly regarding the "popular" vocabulary. Some heavily used words in one country are less frequently used in the other. There's also a noticeable difference in the accent. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Language_Orthographic_Agreement_of_1990 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Language_Orthograph...
    • myohmy 5y ago
      Honestly we need the same for English.
      • pessimizer 5y ago
        No, our orthography is terrible. We should let it slip towards rationality in any of the tiny ways it tries.
      • henvic 5y ago
        No. Just let the language naturally evolve. This "agreement" was an awful thing forced down by political forces. Context: I'm Brazilian and during high school I studied Portuguese "one official version behind". It had more rules, but the language itself was way nicer, and people used to write more close to it, than nowadays. It's better to have a few mistakes due to some archaic rules than to force everything to be sterile and complicate how you pronounce things IMHO Just let people evolve the language naturally instead...
• jozvolskyef 5y ago
  I can also relate and my native language, Czech, is in the Slavic family. GP's friend probably used the word periphery because they knew it's common to the two languages, unlike the hypothetical Portuguese synonym. This applies to many words of Greek and Latinate origin. Their frequency is low in most languages, but they are understood in many languages. I find it sad that Brits are peer-pressured into giving up this aspect of their language due to perceived elitism. These 'elitist' words facilitate understanding across the various European languages.
• StavrosK 5y ago
  I'm Greek, and "periphery" sounds fancy here too :P We'd just say "to the edge".
  • YeGoblynQueenne 5y ago
    We also say "Perifereia Attikis" for the municipality (?) of Attica. I don't find it fancy, just not often used.
    • StavrosK 5y ago
      It depends on the context, you wouldn't say "στην περιφέρεια της ψησταριάς", that sounds pretty fancy.
      • YeGoblynQueenne 5y ago
        It does. To be honest, I don't know how I'd phrase "on the edge of the barbecue". "Στην απέξω μεριά"? We also use "περιφέρεια" for the circumference of a circle so I could say "στην περιφέρεια της ψησταριάς" to make a nerdy joke... but that supports your point.
        • StavrosK 5y ago
          "Στην άκρη" I'd say.
          • YeGoblynQueenne 5y ago
            Ah, right. Dammit. I'm starting to forget my Greek...
        • thaumasiotes 5y ago
          > We also use "περιφέρεια" for the circumference of a circle Blasphemy! (In English, at least, circles have a "circumference" while every other shape has a "perimeter". Ovals seem to use either word.) I never actually thought about combining "perimeter" with "circumference" to get "periphery".
• jrochkind1 5y ago
  So I'm assuming there is some cognate to "periphery" in portugese -- a portugese word that sounds very similar to that, becuase of shared Latin etymology. so it's not that that word isn't fancy in portugese too. It's that that word might come easier to a portugese (or other romance language) speaker, since it's a cognate, so they use it, and end up sounding fancy in English. An English speaker could do the same thing in portugese with the same words in reverse!
  • carlosf 5y ago
    Exactly, periferia.
    • YeGoblynQueenne 5y ago
      Only it comes (through Latin) from Greek :)
    • robocat 5y ago
      I notice I use some obscure words when speaking Spanish because there is a similar obscure word in English. I even guess at words by taking what I think is an English word with a latin root, and converting it to Spanish, which sometimes works really well and at other times it doesn’t work quite so well at all!
  • thaumasiotes 5y ago
    > I'm assuming there is some cognate to "periphery" in portugese -- a portugese word that sounds very similar to that, becuase of shared Latin etymology. "Periphery" does not have Latin etymology. "Peri" is overtly Greek, and so is "ph". The Latinate version would be "circumference".
    • dragonwriter 5y ago
      > "Periphery" does not have Latin etymology. Yes, the English word (and the Portuguese cognate, periferia) does have a Latin etymology, via Late and Medieval Latin peripheria. Now, the Latin word peripheria itself has a Greek etymology, from Greek periphereia. But both Portuguese and English get their word via Latin (and, in the English case, possibly also French, which also gets it from Latin, though sources differ on whether English got it from French or directly from Medieval Latin, and its plausibly not uniquely one or the other.)
• asveikau 5y ago
  I think the typical word probably has no cognate in English. Eg. I don't speak fluent Portuguese but the closest cognate to o lado that I can think of would be to suggest to move it laterally.
  • dsr_ 5y ago
    To the side.
    • asveikau 5y ago
      Side is not a cognate with lado. It's a translation. Lateral is a cognate. They both come from latin latus.
• WalterBright 5y ago
  > "move the burgers to the periphery of the barbecue" To my ear, that sounds like something a non-native English speaker would say, rather than what an educated native would say. In my head the phrase comes complete with a vague foreign accent :-)
• thaumasiotes 5y ago
  My sister married a Brazilian guy, and one of the biggest things she noticed about his English was that he would agree with negative sentences ("I don't like sushi") by saying "Me too", which is impossible. (You have to agree with a negative sentence by saying "Me neither".)
  • dormento 5y ago
    Its more like: - "Eu não gosto de bolo" ("I don't like cake") - "Eu também [não gosto de bolo]" ("Me too [I don't like cake]")
    • thiagocsf 5y ago
      I’d have chosen “I also” to explain, even then it’s not what he uses but it makes a bit more sense in English: - I also [don’t like cake] After 15+ years speaking and writing English daily, I still trip over the use of “in, on, at”. And every now and then I have my first time pronouncing a word that I’ve known for years, from reading book in my teens. When I first tried to pronounce “phlegm” I tried to sound every letter on it.
      • thaumasiotes 5y ago
        > When I first tried to pronounce “phlegm” I tried to sound every letter on it. The G is pronounced in the derived word "phlegmatic". It can't be pronounced in "phlegm"; English phonology doesn't allow for "gm" as a sound cluster. (Whereas in "phlegmatic", you can put a syllable break between the G and the M, so it's at least possible to produce the sounds.)
• scrubs 5y ago
  See my post elsewhere ... I was pointing out there are three things I dislike in native English Speakers (I am one) that I have not yet detected with my Portuguese friends. Now, I can't understand it but I've asked about this and nothing was confirmed or denied: - Stalling mid-talking with "ummm" or "ahh" while one thinks of more words to say - Rising intonation to make a statement; usually rising intonation is for questions" - Over reliance on works such as "like" ... which even now can be used to start a sentence as with: "like, I was going to the store the other day, and ..." Portuguese is a beautiful language, and like French definitely unlike English, pronunciation of all the syllables is required. In that way it's a more athletic language. In English it's quite important enunciate the first and last syllables, while we compress or cram the middle ones.
  • painfulpox 5y ago
    Stalling noises are common. In French, the most common one is a sort of euuuuuuuu noise. This is one of the first things taught in intensive language courses to sound "native." The rising intonation is just an evolution of the language. I doubt it will stick, but it seems to be mostly used in story-telling scenarios to express some exasperating or confusing scenario in which the question is the point of the story. Almost all meaning in English is in the grammar and diction, so intonation is much more of an aesthetic preference. Like is just a stalling word. French for example will often use words like donc to take a pause and decide how to best continue. There is all sorts of slurring going on in French, as well. You can certainly say gendarmerie, but you'll more often probably hear gendarmrie in day to day speech. Certain subgroups do tons of weird stuff like swapping syllables of words. Mon moto becomes mon Tomo. The language is pretty famous for not pronouncing the last syllable of tons of words. I don't speak Portuguese, but I bet you will find the same or similar patterns in that language.