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I've come to realize that the inherent advantage to the China system is that it can dispose of people at will, it doesn't need to care about your feel and wheth

by nomay 5y ago

I've come to realize that the inherent advantage to the China system is that it can dispose of people at will, it doesn't need to care about your feel and whether you want to be in the loser pack, all in the grand name of the greater good. That makes it nimble, and powerful, that means the system itself almost always wins, as for the people, well, good luck.

elefanten 5y ago
The CCP runs an arbitrage. It is willing to destroy any citizen’s life — to deprive, to immiserate, to extract - in exchange for marginally better systemic performance for the party state. Most other modern governments just aren’t willing and able to use and abuse their citizens to quite the same degree that the CCP is. And with a lot of expendable people + total control, you can drive some fast results. But this is also why the world needs to firmly reject such unethical governance plays, by banding together to shun and decouple from any ruling elite that tries to run them.
- justicezyx 5y ago
  > Most other modern governments just aren’t willing and able to use and abuse their citizens to quite the same degree that the CCP is. Oh, really? Let's look at one metric: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_United_States_incarceration_rate_with_other_countries#:~:text=The%20incarceration%20rate%20of%20the,100%2C000%20(as%20of%202015) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_United_States_.... overall incarceration rate in the US is 639 per 100,000 The incarceration rate of the People's Republic of China varies depending on sources and measures. According to the World Prison Brief, the rate for only sentenced prisoners is 118 per 100,000 (as of 2015) WTH is going on here?
  - pgwhalen 5y ago
    In what sense does a high rate of incarceration help the United States “system” though? This feels like a tenuous connection.
    - justicezyx 5y ago
      I am not an expert, I dont know how a government benefits from abusing their people. I dont see CCP doing that systematically. But apparently many think CCP just like to abuse Chinese people, even if there is no data to support it. Maybe US government is with hidden agendas that requires abusing people inside prisons?
      - pgwhalen 5y ago
        Isn’t it generally agreed that China is actively committing genocide against its own people? If that’s not systematic abuse, I’m not sure what is. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide
        justicezyx 5y ago
        You can search Youtube and see youtubers' visiting to Xinjiang, and even the sites of the so-called genocide events. Draw your own conclusion. I haven't been in Xinjiang in my lifetime, I have no idea what really happened. I watched CNN, ABC, and many western news reports, and CGTN's reports, and a lot of Youtuber, like and dislike China all alike. I had my own opinions. But I see no reason to present them without myself setting foot on the region.
        random314 5y ago
        Yes, of course. No sense in presenting opinions without setting foot in Xinjiang with the blessings of a carefully monitoring government. Sure many celebrities and professors have disappeared for the last 2-3 years and China is trying to compel expat Uighurs to return to China. But I don't want to present opinions without setting foot in china. There are too many reports of Chinese soldiers entering homes whisking husbands away into educational camps and sleeping with the wives. But irrespective of all these stories, I am firmly in your camp about my opinion. I see no reason to present my opinion without myself setting foot on the region.
        5y ago
justicezyx 5y ago
> it doesn't need to care about your feel and whether you want to be in the loser pack > as for the people, well, good luck. I am more and more direct nowadays to point out the ridiculousness of comments like this: This type of comments do not square with the facts in even the slightest sense. China runs the world's largest and most successful poverty elimination program. How can a government doing this not care about you in the loser pack? https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/11/27/asia/china-xi-jinping-poverty-alleviation-intl-hnk/index.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/11/27/asia... In essence, a lot of such comments treat CCP as some kind of bizarre imaginary entity that automatically possess any negative traits for the topic being discussed. Of course, the distribution of positive & negative comments are certainly always mixed. But boy, oh boy, I never seen a single comment actually showing a decent understanding of CCP's functioning nowadays, in my 10+ years on hackernews. Not a single comment. Wow

by nomay 5y ago

elefanten 5y ago

The CCP runs an arbitrage. It is willing to destroy any citizen’s life — to deprive, to immiserate, to extract - in exchange for marginally better systemic performance for the party state. Most other modern governments just aren’t willing and able to use and abuse their citizens to quite the same degree that the CCP is. And with a lot of expendable people + total control, you can drive some fast results. But this is also why the world needs to firmly reject such unethical governance plays, by banding together to shun and decouple from any ruling elite that tries to run them.

justicezyx 5y ago
> Most other modern governments just aren’t willing and able to use and abuse their citizens to quite the same degree that the CCP is. Oh, really? Let's look at one metric: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_United_States_incarceration_rate_with_other_countries#:~:text=The%20incarceration%20rate%20of%20the,100%2C000%20(as%20of%202015) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_United_States_.... overall incarceration rate in the US is 639 per 100,000 The incarceration rate of the People's Republic of China varies depending on sources and measures. According to the World Prison Brief, the rate for only sentenced prisoners is 118 per 100,000 (as of 2015) WTH is going on here?
- pgwhalen 5y ago
  In what sense does a high rate of incarceration help the United States “system” though? This feels like a tenuous connection.
  - justicezyx 5y ago
    I am not an expert, I dont know how a government benefits from abusing their people. I dont see CCP doing that systematically. But apparently many think CCP just like to abuse Chinese people, even if there is no data to support it. Maybe US government is with hidden agendas that requires abusing people inside prisons?
    - pgwhalen 5y ago
      Isn’t it generally agreed that China is actively committing genocide against its own people? If that’s not systematic abuse, I’m not sure what is. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide
      - justicezyx 5y ago
        You can search Youtube and see youtubers' visiting to Xinjiang, and even the sites of the so-called genocide events. Draw your own conclusion. I haven't been in Xinjiang in my lifetime, I have no idea what really happened. I watched CNN, ABC, and many western news reports, and CGTN's reports, and a lot of Youtuber, like and dislike China all alike. I had my own opinions. But I see no reason to present them without myself setting foot on the region.
        random314 5y ago
        Yes, of course. No sense in presenting opinions without setting foot in Xinjiang with the blessings of a carefully monitoring government. Sure many celebrities and professors have disappeared for the last 2-3 years and China is trying to compel expat Uighurs to return to China. But I don't want to present opinions without setting foot in china. There are too many reports of Chinese soldiers entering homes whisking husbands away into educational camps and sleeping with the wives. But irrespective of all these stories, I am firmly in your camp about my opinion. I see no reason to present my opinion without myself setting foot on the region.
        5y ago

justicezyx 5y ago

> it doesn't need to care about your feel and whether you want to be in the loser pack > as for the people, well, good luck. I am more and more direct nowadays to point out the ridiculousness of comments like this: This type of comments do not square with the facts in even the slightest sense. China runs the world's largest and most successful poverty elimination program. How can a government doing this not care about you in the loser pack? https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/11/27/asia/china-xi-jinping-poverty-alleviation-intl-hnk/index.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/11/27/asia... In essence, a lot of such comments treat CCP as some kind of bizarre imaginary entity that automatically possess any negative traits for the topic being discussed. Of course, the distribution of positive & negative comments are certainly always mixed. But boy, oh boy, I never seen a single comment actually showing a decent understanding of CCP's functioning nowadays, in my 10+ years on hackernews. Not a single comment. Wow