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> Of course, as soon as you bring up the idea that the capitalist system itself is a problem, inevitably people will start objecting, saying that capitalism is

> Of course, as soon as you bring up the idea that the capitalist system itself is a problem, inevitably people will start objecting, saying that capitalism is what has enabled the creation of all these things in the first place. While many of the creations that they would point to in fact benefited a great deal from government subsidies and/or regulatory capture, it is true that we’ve seen an unprecedented boom under capitalism. However, that doesn’t mean that capitalism is the system we need to stay with. This kind of drivel drives me nuts. Let's just dump on the system that got us here an enabled amazing things to happen, whilst trying to be vague and non-committal about a suggested replacement. The author tries to slip by the fact that they're sympathetic with Marxist ideology - so they show their cards. We've experimented with the kinds of systems that the author subtly favors, time and time again, and they either turn into dystopian authoritarian madness or fail outright. I wish these folks would spend time in one of the failing states, or one in which they have little guarantee of any aspect of life (including liberties), before waxing estatic about utopian tomfoolery.

bantunes 5y ago
Sounds like a pig talking to another pig (that wants freedom) about how good they have it in their pens at the farm.
arp242 5y ago
Well, the industrial revolution with its child labour, or colonisation with outright slavery "got us to where we are" in many ways, but then we decided that wasn't such a great idea after all. And hey, fossil fuels got us very far too. But maybe we should stop with that too and move beyond them. I don't even agree with the author, or not exactly anyway, but I don't think this type of "it's the system that got us here"-type of reasoning is a good argument at all.
- andrew_ 5y ago
  Don't be so obtuse. we aren't talking about individual aspects, the author clearly suggests a fundamental change of the entire system. flawed child labor laws, or a lack of thereof, do not define capitalism.
  - arp242 5y ago
    Entire economies were built on slavery. This isn't a little trivial aspect.
    - andrew_ 5y ago
      slavery also is not a tenet of capitalism. slavery is a separate societal issue that permeates every economic system. you are conflating societal issues with economic systems.
      - arp242 5y ago
        There is no such thing as "capitalism", it's a vague ideology with myriad different implementations. Besides, that wasn't even my point, you've turned this in to a the Not True Capitalism™ word-game, my point was merely that many systems that "got us to where we are" have since been abandoned, and that merely "it's useful" is not a good argument.
        andrew_ 5y ago
        when it comes to word-games, you're putting on one heck of a display. Capitalism isn't a vague ideology - it's literally defined as: an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state. You seem intent on conflating historical societal issues that have come and gone under a capitalist economic system. I'd argue we are where we are despite those societal issues, and that capitalism has endured through them.

bantunes 5y ago

Sounds like a pig talking to another pig (that wants freedom) about how good they have it in their pens at the farm.

arp242 5y ago

Well, the industrial revolution with its child labour, or colonisation with outright slavery "got us to where we are" in many ways, but then we decided that wasn't such a great idea after all. And hey, fossil fuels got us very far too. But maybe we should stop with that too and move beyond them. I don't even agree with the author, or not exactly anyway, but I don't think this type of "it's the system that got us here"-type of reasoning is a good argument at all.

andrew_ 5y ago
Don't be so obtuse. we aren't talking about individual aspects, the author clearly suggests a fundamental change of the entire system. flawed child labor laws, or a lack of thereof, do not define capitalism.
- arp242 5y ago
  Entire economies were built on slavery. This isn't a little trivial aspect.
  - andrew_ 5y ago
    slavery also is not a tenet of capitalism. slavery is a separate societal issue that permeates every economic system. you are conflating societal issues with economic systems.
    - arp242 5y ago
      There is no such thing as "capitalism", it's a vague ideology with myriad different implementations. Besides, that wasn't even my point, you've turned this in to a the Not True Capitalism™ word-game, my point was merely that many systems that "got us to where we are" have since been abandoned, and that merely "it's useful" is not a good argument.
      - andrew_ 5y ago
        when it comes to word-games, you're putting on one heck of a display. Capitalism isn't a vague ideology - it's literally defined as: an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state. You seem intent on conflating historical societal issues that have come and gone under a capitalist economic system. I'd argue we are where we are despite those societal issues, and that capitalism has endured through them.