5 ms·

Friend (tenured economics professor) once only half-jokingly told me, that having children who will take care of you when you are old is the most dependable ret

by Hitton 5y ago

Friend (tenured economics professor) once only half-jokingly told me, that having children who will take care of you when you are old is the most dependable retirement scheme.

geomark 5y ago
Childless friends tell me they won't have kids because they are too expensive. I tell them they are thinking about it wrong. They own a house and talk about it as their best investment. Well, kids are an investment. A high risk/high reward investment for sure. But possibly the greatest investment they will ever make, due at least in part to the reason your friend mentioned.
- incompleteCode 5y ago
  My counterpoint to this is: it's worth it to regret the last few years than to regret it an entire lifetime. I know I'll regret kids. Edit: Goes without saying that you'll need to plan for your retirement. I fully anticipate assisted suicide being a legal option during my old age.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  What if the childless friends are planning to kill themselves once they need assistance? Then their calculations make sense. I have kids, but I still do not want them to spend their time caring for me on a constant basis. I hope I have the ability and physical will to take myself out before that happens. I saw what my parents gave up taking care of one set of my grandparents, I do not wish that on anyone. They “lived” into the upper 90s (over a span of 30 years since the grandparents were 15 years apart in age) and I consider my parents to have wasted many of their best years.
  - geomark 5y ago
    It seems very sad to me to think of it as wasting your best years taking care of your aging parents. I considered it a privilege to take care of my parents to the end. To each his own.
- neysofu 5y ago
  > I tell them they're thinking about it wrong You're talking about kids as financial investments and they're the irrational ones? BTW, the average cost of raising a child 0-17 in the US ~$230k. That amount alone sitting in an index fund over many decades will provide for you more than any single person ever could.
  - geomark 5y ago
    So you have a big pile of cash. And you will just use it to pay someone to take care of you in your old age. And they will do it lovingly because you paid them. They won't take advantage or even abuse you when you get to the point of not being able to do anything about it yourself.
dragonwriter 5y ago
This is pretty much the well-accepted economic explanation as to why strength of social support systems is observed to be inversely related to fertility rate.
philangist 5y ago
It may have been a joke by your friend but it's also has an element of truth to it and is how many cultures across the world understand 'retirement'. It's only since I came to America that I've realized the idea of children having an obligation to take care of their parents when they're elderly could even be controversial.
- watwut 5y ago
  That requires culture in which it is expected of kids to support parents in old age. Or at least a culture that does not see that as a bad thing.
  - bluGill 5y ago
    Most Americans have a form of the culture. The details are different, but most Americans take care of their parents in some form. However because America is a mix of cultures there is a lot of disagreement on how to take care of parents and so you can always find someone of a different cultural influence who isn't doing what you would and look down on them. There are those who don't have kids (or the kids are dead). There are also those who the kids have moved far enough away that they can't really take care of the parents like they want to. However those are not actually the majority cases.
    - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
      > There are also those who the kids have moved far enough away that they can't really take care of the parents like they want to. However those are not actually the majority cases Those cases are very over-represented on HN compared to what's typical nationally and may very well be the local majority here.
  - treespace88 5y ago
    The other side of this is lost now. Where grandparents provide childcare before they are too old. May parents have to first pay for childcare and then have to help out their parents.
cm2012 5y ago
My wife's mom constantly told her growing up that she would have to take care of her mom when she was old. And yet she abused her horribly. Poor investment decision!
trashface 5y ago
This is a good way to make your adult kids hate you. Trust me, I know.

by Hitton 5y ago

Friend (tenured economics professor) once only half-jokingly told me, that having children who will take care of you when you are old is the most dependable retirement scheme.

geomark 5y ago

Childless friends tell me they won't have kids because they are too expensive. I tell them they are thinking about it wrong. They own a house and talk about it as their best investment. Well, kids are an investment. A high risk/high reward investment for sure. But possibly the greatest investment they will ever make, due at least in part to the reason your friend mentioned.

incompleteCode 5y ago
My counterpoint to this is: it's worth it to regret the last few years than to regret it an entire lifetime. I know I'll regret kids. Edit: Goes without saying that you'll need to plan for your retirement. I fully anticipate assisted suicide being a legal option during my old age.
lotsofpulp 5y ago
What if the childless friends are planning to kill themselves once they need assistance? Then their calculations make sense. I have kids, but I still do not want them to spend their time caring for me on a constant basis. I hope I have the ability and physical will to take myself out before that happens. I saw what my parents gave up taking care of one set of my grandparents, I do not wish that on anyone. They “lived” into the upper 90s (over a span of 30 years since the grandparents were 15 years apart in age) and I consider my parents to have wasted many of their best years.
- geomark 5y ago
  It seems very sad to me to think of it as wasting your best years taking care of your aging parents. I considered it a privilege to take care of my parents to the end. To each his own.
neysofu 5y ago
> I tell them they're thinking about it wrong You're talking about kids as financial investments and they're the irrational ones? BTW, the average cost of raising a child 0-17 in the US ~$230k. That amount alone sitting in an index fund over many decades will provide for you more than any single person ever could.
- geomark 5y ago
  So you have a big pile of cash. And you will just use it to pay someone to take care of you in your old age. And they will do it lovingly because you paid them. They won't take advantage or even abuse you when you get to the point of not being able to do anything about it yourself.

dragonwriter 5y ago

This is pretty much the well-accepted economic explanation as to why strength of social support systems is observed to be inversely related to fertility rate.

philangist 5y ago

It may have been a joke by your friend but it's also has an element of truth to it and is how many cultures across the world understand 'retirement'. It's only since I came to America that I've realized the idea of children having an obligation to take care of their parents when they're elderly could even be controversial.

watwut 5y ago
That requires culture in which it is expected of kids to support parents in old age. Or at least a culture that does not see that as a bad thing.
- bluGill 5y ago
  Most Americans have a form of the culture. The details are different, but most Americans take care of their parents in some form. However because America is a mix of cultures there is a lot of disagreement on how to take care of parents and so you can always find someone of a different cultural influence who isn't doing what you would and look down on them. There are those who don't have kids (or the kids are dead). There are also those who the kids have moved far enough away that they can't really take care of the parents like they want to. However those are not actually the majority cases.
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    > There are also those who the kids have moved far enough away that they can't really take care of the parents like they want to. However those are not actually the majority cases Those cases are very over-represented on HN compared to what's typical nationally and may very well be the local majority here.
- treespace88 5y ago
  The other side of this is lost now. Where grandparents provide childcare before they are too old. May parents have to first pay for childcare and then have to help out their parents.

cm2012 5y ago

My wife's mom constantly told her growing up that she would have to take care of her mom when she was old. And yet she abused her horribly. Poor investment decision!

trashface 5y ago

This is a good way to make your adult kids hate you. Trust me, I know.