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> The way it works here in Sweden seems pretty decent to me so far: you get a public pension that you and your employer have paid into the system (of course, it

> The way it works here in Sweden seems pretty decent to me so far: you get a public pension that you and your employer have paid into the system (of course, it pays the current pensioners) and another part of my pension is put into a pension investment account, that I can operate/manage however I want. > So you get both, a minimum pension sustained by the system paid by current working people and an investment account that I can manage and grow as a portfolio to use during my retirement. I think the word 'minimum' is going to have totally different implications for those of us working and saving now, compared to the previous generation, that are living on pretty generous pension plans that were wholly publicly-funded, and which our current payments are maintaining. Also the privatized pension plans in Sweden have been prey both to fraud and high fees. So even though they may give the illusion of future prosperity to those who are trying to save now, that's in no way a guarantee.

jorvi 5y ago
Yup. On a new defunct blog someone laid out in the comments that here in The Netherlands, if €300 of your wage went to pensions, sometjing like €200 would go to fund current pensioners and of that €200, €60 went to a very select group that got two very beneficial pension arrangements stacked.
- thescriptkiddie 5y ago
  Technically all €300 of your contribution goes to fund current pensioners, regardless of how the pension is structured. The idea that you are setting aside money to pay for your own retirement is an illusion. Money is just a proxy for labor, and you cannot transport your own labor into the future to take care of yourself when you are too old to work. In reality, young people must always take care of the elderly, and population decline will be a problem regardless of how much the pension funds have saved up. The question of savings is actually a question of monetary policy: if the flow into the pension fund is greater than the flow out, this creates deflationary pressure (except in whatever assets the fund invests in) and vice versa.
  - kazen44 5y ago
    > In reality, young people must always take care of the elderly. this in and of itself is not a problem in my opinion. The problem is the financial and economic allocation is not going to those in need in society, but those who have amassed massive amount of wealth and use it to create massive hoards of wealth, with a govermental system that makes them to big to fail. Having massive wealth changes the rules of the game completely. You can legaly dodge taxes if you are wealthy, which creates even more wealth. People seem to think the labour market and capitalism is like chess, in which makes the right choices can lead to a wealthy life, but for the vast majority this is not the case. Most people are stuck playing poker with very bad bets instead.

jorvi 5y ago

Yup. On a new defunct blog someone laid out in the comments that here in The Netherlands, if €300 of your wage went to pensions, sometjing like €200 would go to fund current pensioners and of that €200, €60 went to a very select group that got two very beneficial pension arrangements stacked.

thescriptkiddie 5y ago
Technically all €300 of your contribution goes to fund current pensioners, regardless of how the pension is structured. The idea that you are setting aside money to pay for your own retirement is an illusion. Money is just a proxy for labor, and you cannot transport your own labor into the future to take care of yourself when you are too old to work. In reality, young people must always take care of the elderly, and population decline will be a problem regardless of how much the pension funds have saved up. The question of savings is actually a question of monetary policy: if the flow into the pension fund is greater than the flow out, this creates deflationary pressure (except in whatever assets the fund invests in) and vice versa.
- kazen44 5y ago
  > In reality, young people must always take care of the elderly. this in and of itself is not a problem in my opinion. The problem is the financial and economic allocation is not going to those in need in society, but those who have amassed massive amount of wealth and use it to create massive hoards of wealth, with a govermental system that makes them to big to fail. Having massive wealth changes the rules of the game completely. You can legaly dodge taxes if you are wealthy, which creates even more wealth. People seem to think the labour market and capitalism is like chess, in which makes the right choices can lead to a wealthy life, but for the vast majority this is not the case. Most people are stuck playing poker with very bad bets instead.