5 ms·

And so the privatization experiment come to an end. Bye bye Thatcherism. I hope this silly belief in the cure-all of "small govt" will die with it. Sure govt's

by cies 5y ago

And so the privatization experiment come to an end. Bye bye Thatcherism. I hope this silly belief in the cure-all of "small govt" will die with it. Sure govt's should not supply all food, or luxury good, or ... But public transport, schools, hospitals, ... I think we should make a good set of rules by which we can decide which typed of biz should be in private hands, and what we prefer public. The Fed, Blackwater, prisons, rail, hospitals, banks... What could possibly go wrong?

leskat 5y ago
For what it's worth, even Thatcher thought rail privatisation was "a privatisation too far" [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privatisation_of_British_Rail#1990s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privatisation_of_British_Rail#...
- cies 5y ago
  Thatcherism went beyond the namesake :)
throwaway210222 5y ago
> The Fed, Blackwater, prisons, rail, hospitals, banks... What could possibly go wrong? This is not a universal truth. Come enjoy an African government hospital, then sample one of the listed private hospitals.
- fnord123 5y ago
  "There exists a private hospital in a country of superior quality to a public hospital in the same country" is a weak claim. Even weaker is "there exists a private hospital in the world of superior quality to a public hospital also in the world".
  - samatman 5y ago
    I'm fairly certain that the claim you're replying to is that private hospitals in the countries in question are consistently better than public ones.
    - fnord123 5y ago
      If that was the claim, then why consider African hospitals instead of any hospital?
      - throwaway210222 5y ago
        because: 1. its were I live 2. its where glib statements about the virtues government-run organisations slam into cold hard reality. More so than say Switzerland. 3. try get an EU/US/CA/AU/NZ/JP expat to work in Africa and expect his family to use government hospitals. Really, try.
      - samatman 5y ago
        Because those are the countries in question.
  - mytailorisrich 5y ago
    Private hospitals are usually nicer than public ones everywhere, but that's obviously to be expected. However, that misses the point of state involvement in education and healthcare, which is universal access. Of course people with money will have access to (good) schools and (good) healthcare. The state is involved so that everyone has access to those services.
    - fnord123 5y ago
      Education and healthcare also have network effects. If people near you are ill then you're likely to also become ill. If people around you think taxation is theft and coercion then they can band together and elect people with similar brain worms into government.
Traster 5y ago
No it doesn't, this is absolutely not the end of privatization. Private companies will still be running all the trains, the only difference will be they'll be run under the branding of GBR so that people can't complain about the private companies. All this does is move the accountability away from the private companies.
- cies 5y ago
  Sadly.
JgiuX76h 5y ago
This type of "privatization" doesn't make the government any smaller. There is still exactly the same amount of coercion and government control.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  Building railways roads and essential national infrastructure... Coersion?
  - JgiuX76h 5y ago
    Yes. Taxing people to pay for those things requires coercion. Preventing other people from providing completing services requires coercion.
    - cies 5y ago
      Tax could befall only businesses, which are coerced anyway (as you need a license to start a business). Then the businesses increase prices for their products, for which consumers ultimately pay (uncoerced).
    - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
      I have lives in 3 coubtries and never seen a government preventing anyone from building private roads, railways, etc. Somehow essential infrastructure is not a popular business investment Also by that logic stopping people from dueling or stabbing each-other on the street is coersion . Stopping coersion by mafia is coersion. How is this a usefull concept?
    - modo_mario 5y ago
      So how are they prevented from building competing tracks and more importantly how would one build competing tracks if allowed?

by cies 5y ago

leskat 5y ago

For what it's worth, even Thatcher thought rail privatisation was "a privatisation too far" [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privatisation_of_British_Rail#1990s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privatisation_of_British_Rail#...

cies 5y ago
Thatcherism went beyond the namesake :)

throwaway210222 5y ago

> The Fed, Blackwater, prisons, rail, hospitals, banks... What could possibly go wrong? This is not a universal truth. Come enjoy an African government hospital, then sample one of the listed private hospitals.

fnord123 5y ago
"There exists a private hospital in a country of superior quality to a public hospital in the same country" is a weak claim. Even weaker is "there exists a private hospital in the world of superior quality to a public hospital also in the world".
- samatman 5y ago
  I'm fairly certain that the claim you're replying to is that private hospitals in the countries in question are consistently better than public ones.
  - fnord123 5y ago
    If that was the claim, then why consider African hospitals instead of any hospital?
    - throwaway210222 5y ago
      because: 1. its were I live 2. its where glib statements about the virtues government-run organisations slam into cold hard reality. More so than say Switzerland. 3. try get an EU/US/CA/AU/NZ/JP expat to work in Africa and expect his family to use government hospitals. Really, try.
    - samatman 5y ago
      Because those are the countries in question.
- mytailorisrich 5y ago
  Private hospitals are usually nicer than public ones everywhere, but that's obviously to be expected. However, that misses the point of state involvement in education and healthcare, which is universal access. Of course people with money will have access to (good) schools and (good) healthcare. The state is involved so that everyone has access to those services.
  - fnord123 5y ago
    Education and healthcare also have network effects. If people near you are ill then you're likely to also become ill. If people around you think taxation is theft and coercion then they can band together and elect people with similar brain worms into government.

Traster 5y ago

No it doesn't, this is absolutely not the end of privatization. Private companies will still be running all the trains, the only difference will be they'll be run under the branding of GBR so that people can't complain about the private companies. All this does is move the accountability away from the private companies.

cies 5y ago
Sadly.

JgiuX76h 5y ago

This type of "privatization" doesn't make the government any smaller. There is still exactly the same amount of coercion and government control.

ClumsyPilot 5y ago
Building railways roads and essential national infrastructure... Coersion?
- JgiuX76h 5y ago
  Yes. Taxing people to pay for those things requires coercion. Preventing other people from providing completing services requires coercion.
  - cies 5y ago
    Tax could befall only businesses, which are coerced anyway (as you need a license to start a business). Then the businesses increase prices for their products, for which consumers ultimately pay (uncoerced).
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    I have lives in 3 coubtries and never seen a government preventing anyone from building private roads, railways, etc. Somehow essential infrastructure is not a popular business investment Also by that logic stopping people from dueling or stabbing each-other on the street is coersion . Stopping coersion by mafia is coersion. How is this a usefull concept?
  - modo_mario 5y ago
    So how are they prevented from building competing tracks and more importantly how would one build competing tracks if allowed?