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Back when Net Neutrality was hot topic, the nightmare scenario that was always trotted out was that the Internet would become cable television, devoid of the wi

Back when Net Neutrality was hot topic, the nightmare scenario that was always trotted out was that the Internet would become cable television, devoid of the wide diversity of content and voices it has today. Every time I see a story like this (and there are a LOT of them) I half-jokingly wonder if we'll reach that future not because of the collapse of NN, but simply because everyone other than corporations will have been banned from all major platforms. With that in mind, consider that this "failure" of scale may be less of a bug and more of a feature as far as the platforms are concerned. All the big players HATE the Internet as it originally existed. All those independent voices talking all over the place were difficult or impossible to monetize, and the legal hazard of trying to do business near anything resembling a truly free discussion forum is a nightmare. Far better to do away with all that pesky multi-directional communication and go back to the good old days: big company make product, big company market product, little people buy product. No need for discussion or community. That just gets in the way. Maybe, if your lords are feeling generous, they'll give you a comment section where you can talk about how great product is. Any other posts will of course be scrubbed.

AussieWog93 5y ago
I think if all independent voices were banned from large platforms, people would just move elsewhere. I'm not saying that the large platform would collapse, but that a more independent platform would operate in parallel and take care of peoples' desire to both create and consume independent content. It's a cycle that's been going on since at least the 19th century (via pamphlets), and I don't see it stopping any time soon.
- trhway 5y ago
  the key difference of this time is network effect. People aren't going to move elsewhere, and instead they (more precisely - their brains) will be slow boiled like that frog.
- taneq 5y ago
  Of course, the draw card is that people can add their comments and feel like they're involved. You don't want anyone else actually reading the great unwashed's comments, though!
- concordDance 5y ago
  And then that new platform goes the way of Parler (dropped by hosting providers) or Voat (infested by witches) or just spammed/DDOSed to death if they try not to rely on the advanced anti-spam infrastucture that's necesaaru on the modern web.
- ajsnigrutin 5y ago
  The problem with "elsewhere" is, that "elsewhere" is marked as sexist, racist, far-right, nazi-, and free speech is marked as bad. Sites like parler lose their hosting, sites lose their domains, their apps are rejected by the app stores, and soon there is no "elsewhere" to go, atleast not for "the masses".
  - vbezhenar 5y ago
    World is big. As long as there's a browser without built-in censorship (malicious websites filter, kek...) and world-wide Internet, that's not an issue. Parler can always host in Russian data center, for example, who could care less about US politics shenaningas, just like Russian dissidents are hosted in EU data centers.
    - ajsnigrutin 5y ago
      World is big, but eg. mobile ecosystem is basically google and apple, and both banned the parler app.
      - vbezhenar 5y ago
        You don't need app for something like Parler app. It might be more convenient (and even that's questionable, Reddit app is terrible compared to website), but it's not necessary.
  - w14 5y ago
    One way to look at it is that "elsewhere" is a protest pen, just like in the physical world where there is a plan to host this year's G7 protests in Plymouth, 76 miles away from the G7 venue [1]. [1] https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/mp-fears-g7-protest-zone-5410163 https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/mp-fears...
yesenadam 5y ago
> Maybe, if your lords are feeling generous, they'll give you a comment section where you can talk about how great product is. Any other posts will of course be scrubbed. There was a story on here yesterday I don't think many people saw, about a book being rejected from Apple Books because it contained the word "Leanpub"! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27205541 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27205541
- taneq 5y ago
  If I’m reading that right, the book was rejected by an automated pre-screen at draft2digital, and Apple never even saw the rejected manuscript?
  - yesenadam 5y ago
    Yeah. Well, I guess the idea of Apple asking Draft2Digital not to send them books containing any mentions of competitors is precisely that they "never even see" them! But there's a happy end to the confusing tale: Draft2Digital later manually overruled the block, as they were confused why Leanpub would be blocked, as mentions of Amazon are usually the problem. (But the author had other books mentioning Amazon approved, so didn't think it was that. Particularly as censoring mentions of Leanpub got the book past the test. Weird.) The uncensored book is now on Apple Books.
    - csharptwdec19 5y ago
      I wonder if this has/will come up in Epic vs. Apple. Sounds pretty anticompetitive.
lrem 5y ago
Google is a somewhat large-ish player, right? It kind of loves the Internet as it originally existed. A cynic might say that's because it has the competetive advantage in monetising that. Disclaimer: I'm a Googler, my opinions are my own, yadda yadda.
- bashinator 5y ago
  Google wants a distributed internet where users and service providers are largely overlapping sets?
  - lrem 5y ago
    Doesn't it?
    - furgooswft13 5y ago
      Are you for real man? Google does everything in it's power these days to make sure the user never leaves the google.com domain.
- furgooswft13 5y ago
  Google has been instrumental in destroying the Internet as it originally existed. Remember when a bunch of people (and Googlers) threw a fit about Project Dragonfly, Google's "aborted" attempt at a censored search engine for China? Now that it is widely known and accepted that Google routinely manipulates and censors search results in Western countries for political and anti-competitive ends, where is the outrage now? Where are the walkouts at Google campus? If Google ever did "love the Internet as it originally existed", the people who lent that air to the company are long gone, replaced by new people who look at the Great Firewall of China with envy.
  - lrem 5y ago
    Source? That's not in line with my experience of the company.

AussieWog93 5y ago

I think if all independent voices were banned from large platforms, people would just move elsewhere. I'm not saying that the large platform would collapse, but that a more independent platform would operate in parallel and take care of peoples' desire to both create and consume independent content. It's a cycle that's been going on since at least the 19th century (via pamphlets), and I don't see it stopping any time soon.

trhway 5y ago
the key difference of this time is network effect. People aren't going to move elsewhere, and instead they (more precisely - their brains) will be slow boiled like that frog.
taneq 5y ago
Of course, the draw card is that people can add their comments and feel like they're involved. You don't want anyone else actually reading the great unwashed's comments, though!
concordDance 5y ago
And then that new platform goes the way of Parler (dropped by hosting providers) or Voat (infested by witches) or just spammed/DDOSed to death if they try not to rely on the advanced anti-spam infrastucture that's necesaaru on the modern web.
ajsnigrutin 5y ago
The problem with "elsewhere" is, that "elsewhere" is marked as sexist, racist, far-right, nazi-, and free speech is marked as bad. Sites like parler lose their hosting, sites lose their domains, their apps are rejected by the app stores, and soon there is no "elsewhere" to go, atleast not for "the masses".
- vbezhenar 5y ago
  World is big. As long as there's a browser without built-in censorship (malicious websites filter, kek...) and world-wide Internet, that's not an issue. Parler can always host in Russian data center, for example, who could care less about US politics shenaningas, just like Russian dissidents are hosted in EU data centers.
  - ajsnigrutin 5y ago
    World is big, but eg. mobile ecosystem is basically google and apple, and both banned the parler app.
    - vbezhenar 5y ago
      You don't need app for something like Parler app. It might be more convenient (and even that's questionable, Reddit app is terrible compared to website), but it's not necessary.
- w14 5y ago
  One way to look at it is that "elsewhere" is a protest pen, just like in the physical world where there is a plan to host this year's G7 protests in Plymouth, 76 miles away from the G7 venue [1]. [1] https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/mp-fears-g7-protest-zone-5410163 https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/mp-fears...

yesenadam 5y ago

> Maybe, if your lords are feeling generous, they'll give you a comment section where you can talk about how great product is. Any other posts will of course be scrubbed. There was a story on here yesterday I don't think many people saw, about a book being rejected from Apple Books because it contained the word "Leanpub"! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27205541 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27205541

taneq 5y ago
If I’m reading that right, the book was rejected by an automated pre-screen at draft2digital, and Apple never even saw the rejected manuscript?
- yesenadam 5y ago
  Yeah. Well, I guess the idea of Apple asking Draft2Digital not to send them books containing any mentions of competitors is precisely that they "never even see" them! But there's a happy end to the confusing tale: Draft2Digital later manually overruled the block, as they were confused why Leanpub would be blocked, as mentions of Amazon are usually the problem. (But the author had other books mentioning Amazon approved, so didn't think it was that. Particularly as censoring mentions of Leanpub got the book past the test. Weird.) The uncensored book is now on Apple Books.
  - csharptwdec19 5y ago
    I wonder if this has/will come up in Epic vs. Apple. Sounds pretty anticompetitive.

lrem 5y ago

Google is a somewhat large-ish player, right? It kind of loves the Internet as it originally existed. A cynic might say that's because it has the competetive advantage in monetising that. Disclaimer: I'm a Googler, my opinions are my own, yadda yadda.

bashinator 5y ago
Google wants a distributed internet where users and service providers are largely overlapping sets?
- lrem 5y ago
  Doesn't it?
  - furgooswft13 5y ago
    Are you for real man? Google does everything in it's power these days to make sure the user never leaves the google.com domain.
furgooswft13 5y ago
Google has been instrumental in destroying the Internet as it originally existed. Remember when a bunch of people (and Googlers) threw a fit about Project Dragonfly, Google's "aborted" attempt at a censored search engine for China? Now that it is widely known and accepted that Google routinely manipulates and censors search results in Western countries for political and anti-competitive ends, where is the outrage now? Where are the walkouts at Google campus? If Google ever did "love the Internet as it originally existed", the people who lent that air to the company are long gone, replaced by new people who look at the Great Firewall of China with envy.
- lrem 5y ago
  Source? That's not in line with my experience of the company.