4 ms·

Can one trace where a call originates from?

by lyime 5y ago

rhizome 5y ago
The phone companies know, but they won't tell you without a court order.
- imgabe 5y ago
  This is a good thing. Companies should not release user data without a court order.
  - unishark 5y ago
    ...or consent. Seems like Marriott should get a say in the tracing of calls from people claiming to represent Marriott.
  - rhizome 5y ago
    They (or whoever is transiting their lines) know the account number of the entity that pays for the line that the robocalls are originating from. If the phone company made it possible for end users to block numbers based on who is funding the calls I think they would go away fairly completely.
- judge2020 5y ago
  Even with this, it’s probably not going to be of much use when they all turn up from countries with a low standard of living (in terms of USD payment per month). I doubt Marriott would spend the resources suing some company across the world.
  - viraptor 5y ago
    If the government cares enough there's still a way to deal with that. Telcos could be forced not forward spam calls and allowed to not accept connections from known spam sources. Then the foreign telcos would have to choose between cleaning up their act or not being able to route calls to the US anymore. Technically that's easy to implement on peering level. But international routing is still relatively expensive. In most cases your "international" incoming call is just a local one with spoofed source.
  - ThrustVectoring 5y ago
    or someone whose story is "idk someone on craigslist paid me $300 to set up a business phone account". They'd want these anyways to ensure that they retain access in case of the network actually shutting them out.
ThrustVectoring 5y ago
Sure, but that doesn't necessarily do all that much to stem the tide. The spam callers care a hell of a lot more about maintaining access and call volume than the telcos care about ensuring spammers stay off the system; if they don't have multiple redundant systems run by facially independent cut-outs, they're organizationally incompetent. Like, employing someone to hire people off craigslist to help "set up their new business" by opening an outbound phone account under the craigslister's name is cheap compared to the gains from running the spam network.
rasz 5y ago
"We traced the call. It's coming from inside the house!" Telcos make a bank facilitating the spammers.
maxk42 5y ago
Yes and no. The problem is that if you make a call from AT&T then AT&T knows you made the call. But AT&T also has to treat calls from other carriers - including carriers from other countries - as valid phone calls, without knowing if the information provided by the other carrier is accurate. Most of these spam factories are based offshore in countries with lax regulations. Others use legitimate services like Twilio to launder their calls so you have to subpoena their carrier, then subpoena Twilio only to find out that the call is coming from a country or jurisdiction where what they're doing isn't illegal. It's a slow and painful process to track these scammers down.

Can one trace where a call originates from?

by lyime 5y ago

Can one trace where a call originates from?

rhizome 5y ago

The phone companies know, but they won't tell you without a court order.

imgabe 5y ago
This is a good thing. Companies should not release user data without a court order.
- unishark 5y ago
  ...or consent. Seems like Marriott should get a say in the tracing of calls from people claiming to represent Marriott.
- rhizome 5y ago
  They (or whoever is transiting their lines) know the account number of the entity that pays for the line that the robocalls are originating from. If the phone company made it possible for end users to block numbers based on who is funding the calls I think they would go away fairly completely.
judge2020 5y ago
Even with this, it’s probably not going to be of much use when they all turn up from countries with a low standard of living (in terms of USD payment per month). I doubt Marriott would spend the resources suing some company across the world.
- viraptor 5y ago
  If the government cares enough there's still a way to deal with that. Telcos could be forced not forward spam calls and allowed to not accept connections from known spam sources. Then the foreign telcos would have to choose between cleaning up their act or not being able to route calls to the US anymore. Technically that's easy to implement on peering level. But international routing is still relatively expensive. In most cases your "international" incoming call is just a local one with spoofed source.
- ThrustVectoring 5y ago
  or someone whose story is "idk someone on craigslist paid me $300 to set up a business phone account". They'd want these anyways to ensure that they retain access in case of the network actually shutting them out.

ThrustVectoring 5y ago

Sure, but that doesn't necessarily do all that much to stem the tide. The spam callers care a hell of a lot more about maintaining access and call volume than the telcos care about ensuring spammers stay off the system; if they don't have multiple redundant systems run by facially independent cut-outs, they're organizationally incompetent. Like, employing someone to hire people off craigslist to help "set up their new business" by opening an outbound phone account under the craigslister's name is cheap compared to the gains from running the spam network.

rasz 5y ago

"We traced the call. It's coming from inside the house!" Telcos make a bank facilitating the spammers.

maxk42 5y ago

Yes and no. The problem is that if you make a call from AT&T then AT&T knows you made the call. But AT&T also has to treat calls from other carriers - including carriers from other countries - as valid phone calls, without knowing if the information provided by the other carrier is accurate. Most of these spam factories are based offshore in countries with lax regulations. Others use legitimate services like Twilio to launder their calls so you have to subpoena their carrier, then subpoena Twilio only to find out that the call is coming from a country or jurisdiction where what they're doing isn't illegal. It's a slow and painful process to track these scammers down.