6 ms·

The number of fatalities is 10x-100x more than what is published officially. Most people died at homes due to them being rural and all hospitals working at capa

The number of fatalities is 10x-100x more than what is published officially. Most people died at homes due to them being rural and all hospitals working at capacity. At government hospitals, you have to be tested and be covid positive to be listed as covid death. Private hospitals in rural areas simply don't send the stats back. I don't know any family in India that didn't have a death among their relatives. They said injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere and this is probably the price to pay for letting Modi run his private circus of his kumbh mela and election rallies. The strain has escaped India and we don't know how it will affect the rest of the world. All his political life, him and his supporters cried for statues and temples and now they stand on the ashes of million dead people and all they can hear is a deafening silence of their gods.

majjgepolja 5y ago
Religion being the opium for the masses Without Exception.
0xFFFE 5y ago
who is stopping you from voting him out? It's a fucking democracy last I checked.
cscurmudgeon 5y ago
Also, India had the world's largest protests by farmers protesting against removal of subsidies. https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/06/opinions/india-farmer-protests-mandeep-rai-dhillon/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/06/opinions/india-farmer-protest... > The number of fatalities is 10x-100x more than what is published Source?
- robbiep 5y ago
  I'm just trying to understand how insensitive it is to comment on a thread where OP is clearly someone who has either suffered loss or has an entire network suffering loss, and then go full strong systemiser and ask for a reference. The absurdity of asking is even stronger when almost any understanding of the situation on the ground in India would mean an understanding that there is widespread and systemic problems with data collection in India, essentially as there has been throughout the pandemic globally, reflecting the difficulty of determining infection rates, CFR vs IFR and deaths in a testing scarcity environment. I don't know for sure but I would anticipate that there is a good chance that many indian deaths are never registered which would make other post pandemic methods of determining true 'excess mortality' very difficult. The particular irony in this whole post extending from your question being that the BBC itself, in the linked article, in the second paragraph, states that 'experts say the real death toll is several times higher'. Now that isn't your 1-2 magnitudes but you don't have to travel far from there to get those types of sources, but depending on how strong-systemiser you go on requiring hard numbers, the fact is no-one will ever know because no one is counting
  - hzay 5y ago
    A lot of comments that appear neutral here are actually political btw. Saying that deaths are undercounted or citing foreign media is seen as "anti national" now within India.
    - robbiep 5y ago
      Everything regarding COVID is political which is absurd. I'm not indian or have any indian family but I am a Doctor and most of my lines of data come from the medical community reporting back
      - aww_dang 5y ago
        Most things can be interpreted politically. That doesn't mean "here's why I blame COVID on my political opponents, AKA the evil-doers", is an interesting or useful start to a discussion. If it is, the counterpoint about protests is equally valid.
        robbiep 5y ago
        Did I or have I done that? I have no political skin in the game here
        aww_dang 5y ago
        Nor do I. I'm observing that the entire thread is political. The top post starts with a political slight. Please do not read my comment as accusatory.
  - dukeofdoom 5y ago
    What do feeling have to do with facts. COVID has at most 1% mortality rate. It hasn't been shown to significantly increase yearly mortality rate. About the same number of people are dying as every year. The Ganges is a large river. The claim is a hyperbolic exaggeration.
- flukus 5y ago
  > Source? It's a poor country and tests aren't free, that alone will give you an under count. Throw in the current crises, the positivity rate and all the other challenges of a developing nation and 10x is not at all surprising. Accurate numbers are a privilege of wealthy nations and even they struggled.
  - cscurmudgeon 5y ago
    > It's a poor country and tests aren't free, that alone will give you an under count. So bigotry is the source. Got it. Why not make it 1000x-100000x?
apoorvagk 5y ago
> I don't know any family in India that didn't have a death among their relatives. I am sorry for the losses you and your friends have experienced. I came here to provide a contrarian view just so that the readers here do not get a skewed view of what is going on. I agree with you that the actual deaths are at least 10X and possibly 100X more than the official numbers. But nobody in my family has been tested positive with COVID-19 or died of COVID-19 or any other illness in the last 2 years. I know many friends and colleagues too whose entire families have been safe in this pandemic. There are a few who have lost a family member to COVID-19. Some of them got infected and recovered. But most of the people in my circle and their families are safe.
- blackoil 5y ago
  OP said relatives, which adds extended family. Even by worst estimates ~50% of population has been infected, so not surprising to find families which are not infected.
- ridiculous_lol 5y ago
  My distant family members have been tested positive but no one has died. The parent is definitely stretching it.
- ganeshkrishnan 5y ago
  >But nobody in my family has been tested positive with COVID-19 or died of COVID-19 or any other illness in the last 2 years. My immediate family could quarantine because we are relatively well off. We can order online and most of our jobs are tech as well. Other friends and families including doctors can't afford to stay locked down. The first wave was withering down, life was returning back to normal. All modi had to do was to sit down and shut up. But he thought his getting elected was more important so he organized election rallies and let the kumbh mela happen with 12 million people gathering.
  - Clewza313 5y ago
    It's even worse than that: the Kumbh Mela was organized one year earlier than it would normally be, and Modi/BJP are partly responsible for that.
Shinobuu 5y ago
>fatalities is 10x-100x more than what is published officially Source please. >you have to be tested and be covid positive to be listed as covid death. You do realize that's the correct way right? Everywhere it's done the same way. >All his political life, him and his supporters cried for statues and temples and now they stand on the ashes of million dead people and all they can hear is a deafening silence of their gods. logic has left the chat
- ganeshkrishnan 5y ago
  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/24/indias-covid-death-toll-hides-stark-truth-for-the-poor-its-even-worse https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/24/indias-covid-d... https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/24/world/asia/india-coronavirus-deaths.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/24/world/asia/india-coronavi... I know around 14 people that died of covid. None of them were listed in the covid deaths. >logic has left the chat Instead of resorting to silly childish taunts, I would appreciate you refute my sentence of why building statues and temples was more necessary than building hospitals or schools? Especially when run by grandiose idiots like this who want to convert nitrogen to oxygen https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/lucknow/yogi-explore-possibility-of-o2-production-from-nitrogen/articleshow/82348248.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/lucknow/yogi-explor...
  - Shinobuu 5y ago
    >I know around 14 people that died of covid. None of them were listed in the covid deaths. And you're going to compare 1.4bi people based on 100 people you interact with? Confirmation bias I'd say, numbers are higher but stating, yolo, 10x-100x is nothing but a Yellow Press comment. >Instead of resorting to silly childish taunt Says the person who jumps the gun trying to sound dramatic instead of any solid numbers to back their claim, all stating, "Maybe". >why building statues and temples was more necessary than building hospitals or schools? Ever heard of tourism? You can't run a country just by spending money, you need to spend money to earn money in long term too.
  - amriksohata 5y ago
    Building statues is quite normal all over the world, the opposition party did this a lot with Mayawati, nothing to do with the BJP, the BJP only built one of a historical figure (Sardar Patel) which generate huge amounts of Tourism. Busts exist all over the UK, and in America. Most temples are donated from private funds, same as building Mosques, Gurudwaras or Churches. You are comparing apples and oranges.
actuator 5y ago
The situation is quite sad, and I am happy you and your family are fine as you mentioned in your other comment. I am quite sure you can do without spreading FUD here though. If you have data to back up the 10-100x claim, please share it. There has been undercounting in most countries and India having largely poor infra you would expect it to be higher there. The data has been analysed by a lot of experts and most are putting the real count between 2-3x. https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1390536686635978752?s=20 https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1390536686635978752?s=...
- ganeshkrishnan 5y ago
  The global death toll is 2-3x than listed not for India.
  - actuator 5y ago
    Can you please read that graph again and tell me where you didn't have clarity? ~600k/~200k is ~ 3x. Those are the numbers mentioned for the country in discussion here.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- statguy 5y ago
  There is a lot of evidence that the death toll in India is an order of magnitude higher: From this very article: "He said officially 196 people had died from the virus in Kanpur between 16 April and 5 May, but the data from seven crematoriums showed nearly 8,000 cremations." Here is another analysis from Gujarat: https://mobile.twitter.com/deepakpatel_91/status/1393070596741734405 https://mobile.twitter.com/deepakpatel_91/status/13930705967... The study that you have linked to above has primarily focused on western countries, where the process of reporting and recording of deaths is much better than in India.
  - actuator 5y ago
    I think their analysis is also using the total pronounced deaths to Covid deaths and studying the delta from previous years, the same as the tweet you linked. The figures seem higher in the tweet, I am guessing we will have more clarity on this once the situation settles down a bit and more data can be aggregated.
cipher_system 5y ago
I'm sorry to hear that. The number of cases has been difficult to compare between countries since everyone measures differently but the number of deaths are in many countries extremely accurate and even though it differs a bit each year it still gives a good measure of how bad it is. Do you know if this is reported and compiled accurate in India?
bongoman37 5y ago
Things are pretty bad. I was talking to a colleague of mine who lost his Dad to COVID in Delhi and he said the wait time at the crematorium was super long. He found one guy was who in queue with bodies of both his parents for almost 18 hours. Given the situation, relatives are reluctant or unable to help so this guy just sat with the bodies all alone.
hiyer 5y ago
> Modi run his private circus of his kumbh mela and election rallies. In terms of number of cases the worst affected are Karnataka and Maharashtra[0] which had neither Kumbh Mela nor election rallies. Neither did other badly affected states like Delhi. Kumbh Mela in fact started when the "second wave" was already well entrenched. Also, long after Kumbh Mela was truncated and the election rallies got over - and even at the height of the second wave - people were still blowing social distancing norms to smithereens at farmers rallies [1] and Ramzan/Eid celebrations[2]. 0. https://www.covid19india.org/ https://www.covid19india.org/ 1. https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/punjab/covid-norms-go-for-a-toss-at-farmers-rally-251998 https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/punjab/covid-norms-go-for-... 2. https://theprint.in/health/covid-protocols-up-in-the-air-in-hyderabads-eid-markets-vendors-say-need-to-earn/654868/ https://theprint.in/health/covid-protocols-up-in-the-air-in-...
- approxim8ion 5y ago
  In terms of "declared" number of cases.
- fellellor 5y ago
  This thread is insane.
amriksohata 5y ago
Sorry not true, there were multiple events that led to this including a lack of social distancing at the Farmers Protest. The EC requested digital rallies but it was the opposition parties that blocked that happening, not Modis party. The Kumbh happened after the variant of the Chinese virus was discovered. In between many festivities continued like Ramadan etc.

majjgepolja 5y ago

Religion being the opium for the masses Without Exception.

0xFFFE 5y ago

who is stopping you from voting him out? It's a fucking democracy last I checked.

cscurmudgeon 5y ago

Also, India had the world's largest protests by farmers protesting against removal of subsidies. https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/06/opinions/india-farmer-protests-mandeep-rai-dhillon/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/06/opinions/india-farmer-protest... > The number of fatalities is 10x-100x more than what is published Source?

robbiep 5y ago
I'm just trying to understand how insensitive it is to comment on a thread where OP is clearly someone who has either suffered loss or has an entire network suffering loss, and then go full strong systemiser and ask for a reference. The absurdity of asking is even stronger when almost any understanding of the situation on the ground in India would mean an understanding that there is widespread and systemic problems with data collection in India, essentially as there has been throughout the pandemic globally, reflecting the difficulty of determining infection rates, CFR vs IFR and deaths in a testing scarcity environment. I don't know for sure but I would anticipate that there is a good chance that many indian deaths are never registered which would make other post pandemic methods of determining true 'excess mortality' very difficult. The particular irony in this whole post extending from your question being that the BBC itself, in the linked article, in the second paragraph, states that 'experts say the real death toll is several times higher'. Now that isn't your 1-2 magnitudes but you don't have to travel far from there to get those types of sources, but depending on how strong-systemiser you go on requiring hard numbers, the fact is no-one will ever know because no one is counting
- hzay 5y ago
  A lot of comments that appear neutral here are actually political btw. Saying that deaths are undercounted or citing foreign media is seen as "anti national" now within India.
  - robbiep 5y ago
    Everything regarding COVID is political which is absurd. I'm not indian or have any indian family but I am a Doctor and most of my lines of data come from the medical community reporting back
    - aww_dang 5y ago
      Most things can be interpreted politically. That doesn't mean "here's why I blame COVID on my political opponents, AKA the evil-doers", is an interesting or useful start to a discussion. If it is, the counterpoint about protests is equally valid.
      - robbiep 5y ago
        Did I or have I done that? I have no political skin in the game here
        aww_dang 5y ago
        Nor do I. I'm observing that the entire thread is political. The top post starts with a political slight. Please do not read my comment as accusatory.
- dukeofdoom 5y ago
  What do feeling have to do with facts. COVID has at most 1% mortality rate. It hasn't been shown to significantly increase yearly mortality rate. About the same number of people are dying as every year. The Ganges is a large river. The claim is a hyperbolic exaggeration.
flukus 5y ago
> Source? It's a poor country and tests aren't free, that alone will give you an under count. Throw in the current crises, the positivity rate and all the other challenges of a developing nation and 10x is not at all surprising. Accurate numbers are a privilege of wealthy nations and even they struggled.
- cscurmudgeon 5y ago
  > It's a poor country and tests aren't free, that alone will give you an under count. So bigotry is the source. Got it. Why not make it 1000x-100000x?

apoorvagk 5y ago

> I don't know any family in India that didn't have a death among their relatives. I am sorry for the losses you and your friends have experienced. I came here to provide a contrarian view just so that the readers here do not get a skewed view of what is going on. I agree with you that the actual deaths are at least 10X and possibly 100X more than the official numbers. But nobody in my family has been tested positive with COVID-19 or died of COVID-19 or any other illness in the last 2 years. I know many friends and colleagues too whose entire families have been safe in this pandemic. There are a few who have lost a family member to COVID-19. Some of them got infected and recovered. But most of the people in my circle and their families are safe.

blackoil 5y ago
OP said relatives, which adds extended family. Even by worst estimates ~50% of population has been infected, so not surprising to find families which are not infected.
ridiculous_lol 5y ago
My distant family members have been tested positive but no one has died. The parent is definitely stretching it.
ganeshkrishnan 5y ago
>But nobody in my family has been tested positive with COVID-19 or died of COVID-19 or any other illness in the last 2 years. My immediate family could quarantine because we are relatively well off. We can order online and most of our jobs are tech as well. Other friends and families including doctors can't afford to stay locked down. The first wave was withering down, life was returning back to normal. All modi had to do was to sit down and shut up. But he thought his getting elected was more important so he organized election rallies and let the kumbh mela happen with 12 million people gathering.
- Clewza313 5y ago
  It's even worse than that: the Kumbh Mela was organized one year earlier than it would normally be, and Modi/BJP are partly responsible for that.

Shinobuu 5y ago

>fatalities is 10x-100x more than what is published officially Source please. >you have to be tested and be covid positive to be listed as covid death. You do realize that's the correct way right? Everywhere it's done the same way. >All his political life, him and his supporters cried for statues and temples and now they stand on the ashes of million dead people and all they can hear is a deafening silence of their gods. logic has left the chat

ganeshkrishnan 5y ago
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/24/indias-covid-death-toll-hides-stark-truth-for-the-poor-its-even-worse https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/24/indias-covid-d... https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/24/world/asia/india-coronavirus-deaths.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/24/world/asia/india-coronavi... I know around 14 people that died of covid. None of them were listed in the covid deaths. >logic has left the chat Instead of resorting to silly childish taunts, I would appreciate you refute my sentence of why building statues and temples was more necessary than building hospitals or schools? Especially when run by grandiose idiots like this who want to convert nitrogen to oxygen https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/lucknow/yogi-explore-possibility-of-o2-production-from-nitrogen/articleshow/82348248.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/lucknow/yogi-explor...
- Shinobuu 5y ago
  >I know around 14 people that died of covid. None of them were listed in the covid deaths. And you're going to compare 1.4bi people based on 100 people you interact with? Confirmation bias I'd say, numbers are higher but stating, yolo, 10x-100x is nothing but a Yellow Press comment. >Instead of resorting to silly childish taunt Says the person who jumps the gun trying to sound dramatic instead of any solid numbers to back their claim, all stating, "Maybe". >why building statues and temples was more necessary than building hospitals or schools? Ever heard of tourism? You can't run a country just by spending money, you need to spend money to earn money in long term too.
- amriksohata 5y ago
  Building statues is quite normal all over the world, the opposition party did this a lot with Mayawati, nothing to do with the BJP, the BJP only built one of a historical figure (Sardar Patel) which generate huge amounts of Tourism. Busts exist all over the UK, and in America. Most temples are donated from private funds, same as building Mosques, Gurudwaras or Churches. You are comparing apples and oranges.

actuator 5y ago

The situation is quite sad, and I am happy you and your family are fine as you mentioned in your other comment. I am quite sure you can do without spreading FUD here though. If you have data to back up the 10-100x claim, please share it. There has been undercounting in most countries and India having largely poor infra you would expect it to be higher there. The data has been analysed by a lot of experts and most are putting the real count between 2-3x. https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1390536686635978752?s=20 https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1390536686635978752?s=...

ganeshkrishnan 5y ago
The global death toll is 2-3x than listed not for India.
- actuator 5y ago
  Can you please read that graph again and tell me where you didn't have clarity? ~600k/~200k is ~ 3x. Those are the numbers mentioned for the country in discussion here.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
statguy 5y ago
There is a lot of evidence that the death toll in India is an order of magnitude higher: From this very article: "He said officially 196 people had died from the virus in Kanpur between 16 April and 5 May, but the data from seven crematoriums showed nearly 8,000 cremations." Here is another analysis from Gujarat: https://mobile.twitter.com/deepakpatel_91/status/1393070596741734405 https://mobile.twitter.com/deepakpatel_91/status/13930705967... The study that you have linked to above has primarily focused on western countries, where the process of reporting and recording of deaths is much better than in India.
- actuator 5y ago
  I think their analysis is also using the total pronounced deaths to Covid deaths and studying the delta from previous years, the same as the tweet you linked. The figures seem higher in the tweet, I am guessing we will have more clarity on this once the situation settles down a bit and more data can be aggregated.

cipher_system 5y ago

I'm sorry to hear that. The number of cases has been difficult to compare between countries since everyone measures differently but the number of deaths are in many countries extremely accurate and even though it differs a bit each year it still gives a good measure of how bad it is. Do you know if this is reported and compiled accurate in India?

bongoman37 5y ago

Things are pretty bad. I was talking to a colleague of mine who lost his Dad to COVID in Delhi and he said the wait time at the crematorium was super long. He found one guy was who in queue with bodies of both his parents for almost 18 hours. Given the situation, relatives are reluctant or unable to help so this guy just sat with the bodies all alone.

hiyer 5y ago

> Modi run his private circus of his kumbh mela and election rallies. In terms of number of cases the worst affected are Karnataka and Maharashtra[0] which had neither Kumbh Mela nor election rallies. Neither did other badly affected states like Delhi. Kumbh Mela in fact started when the "second wave" was already well entrenched. Also, long after Kumbh Mela was truncated and the election rallies got over - and even at the height of the second wave - people were still blowing social distancing norms to smithereens at farmers rallies [1] and Ramzan/Eid celebrations[2]. 0. https://www.covid19india.org/ https://www.covid19india.org/ 1. https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/punjab/covid-norms-go-for-a-toss-at-farmers-rally-251998 https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/punjab/covid-norms-go-for-... 2. https://theprint.in/health/covid-protocols-up-in-the-air-in-hyderabads-eid-markets-vendors-say-need-to-earn/654868/ https://theprint.in/health/covid-protocols-up-in-the-air-in-...

approxim8ion 5y ago
In terms of "declared" number of cases.
fellellor 5y ago
This thread is insane.

amriksohata 5y ago

Sorry not true, there were multiple events that led to this including a lack of social distancing at the Farmers Protest. The EC requested digital rallies but it was the opposition parties that blocked that happening, not Modis party. The Kumbh happened after the variant of the Chinese virus was discovered. In between many festivities continued like Ramadan etc.