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It is possible to mourn the fact that women have historically been excluded from pursuits in which they might have excelled, while not demeaning the worth of th

by scubbo 5y ago

It is possible to mourn the fact that women have historically been excluded from pursuits in which they might have excelled, while not demeaning the worth of the pursuits that they were forced into. Childcare and home-making are invaluable and important. Many other pursuits are also valuable and important. It's not unreasonable to suspect that _some_ women have historically been forced into being home-makers when they would have been happier and/or more productive in other pursuits, _even while acknowledging_ that other women have lived their best-possible-lives in the (I say this earnestly and unsarcastically) noble pursuit of home-making.

DoreenMichele 5y ago
One of the problems I have with such sentiments is that while probably most women were homemakers, most men had jobs like subsistence farmers. My father could remember when his mother had no choice but to cook from scratch because they had no fridge and there were no prepackaged convenience foods and microwaves had not yet been invented. "Peas porridge hot, peas porridge cold" described a typical diet for a poor person of the time when that was written: A hot vegetarian meal with legumes, not meat, providing the protein for lunch and cold leftovers of the same for dinner. It was critical to the survival of the species for someone to cook regularly and it made sense for myriad reasons for it to be the mother, not the father, for most families. This was rooted in part in a lack of reliable birth control. Virginity until marriage and insisting the parents were responsible for the welfare of the children was the best we could do in most places on earth for much of human history. A lot of people lacked many things we think of as "basic" today, such as food security, hygiene and birth control. Such people probably mostly were not dreaming of intellectually interesting careers and having their name remembered by future generations. I'm glad to see we currently have the means for people to worry about such things. But it's a mistake to project such hopes and dreams overly much on people who often were dreaming much more humble dreams, like not starving to death this winter.
- inglor_cz 5y ago
  We tend to romanticize the past, not least due to the huge volume of art that survives. But everyday life of a regular person sucked in ways that are hard to imagine for most Western people of 2021. Washing with cold water, shortages of food, exhausting physical work that damaged your body, infectious diseases, living in slums.

by scubbo 5y ago

DoreenMichele 5y ago

One of the problems I have with such sentiments is that while probably most women were homemakers, most men had jobs like subsistence farmers. My father could remember when his mother had no choice but to cook from scratch because they had no fridge and there were no prepackaged convenience foods and microwaves had not yet been invented. "Peas porridge hot, peas porridge cold" described a typical diet for a poor person of the time when that was written: A hot vegetarian meal with legumes, not meat, providing the protein for lunch and cold leftovers of the same for dinner. It was critical to the survival of the species for someone to cook regularly and it made sense for myriad reasons for it to be the mother, not the father, for most families. This was rooted in part in a lack of reliable birth control. Virginity until marriage and insisting the parents were responsible for the welfare of the children was the best we could do in most places on earth for much of human history. A lot of people lacked many things we think of as "basic" today, such as food security, hygiene and birth control. Such people probably mostly were not dreaming of intellectually interesting careers and having their name remembered by future generations. I'm glad to see we currently have the means for people to worry about such things. But it's a mistake to project such hopes and dreams overly much on people who often were dreaming much more humble dreams, like not starving to death this winter.

inglor_cz 5y ago
We tend to romanticize the past, not least due to the huge volume of art that survives. But everyday life of a regular person sucked in ways that are hard to imagine for most Western people of 2021. Washing with cold water, shortages of food, exhausting physical work that damaged your body, infectious diseases, living in slums.