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For sure, it's very risky, highly volatile and nobody should put more money than they are willing to lose. But if you don't trust your gov/central bankers then

For sure, it's very risky, highly volatile and nobody should put more money than they are willing to lose. But if you don't trust your gov/central bankers then crypto is one(only?) way to opt out.

thefounder 5y ago
The issue is that the value of crypto is influenced by gov/central bankers as well. I really don't see how you could hold and trade assets if your gov doesn't want to. It can simply make it illegal like they did in China. As a business you can't sell services using illegal currency so your crypto currency treasure becomes worthless because you can't buy a loaf of bread with it.
- arcticbull 5y ago
  China, India and Nigeria have made - or are in the process of making - crypto illegal. That's about 30% of the world's population. More to come.
  - cableshaft 5y ago
    China did not make crypto illegal. "China has banned crypto exchanges and initial coin offerings but has not barred individuals from holding cryptocurrencies." https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/18/china-bans-financial-payment-institutions-from-cryptocurrency-business.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/18/china-bans-financial-payment... India is likely to just regulate crypto, not ban it outright, even though an official made the claim back in March that they were going to: "The central government may form a fresh panel of experts to study the possibility of regulating cryptocurrency in India, three sources privy of the discussions told ET. This comes amid the prevailing view that the recommendations by a committee headed by former finance secretary Subhash Garg in 2019 for a blanket ban on these assets had become outdated." https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/technology/govt-may-set-up-new-panel-to-study-crypto-regulations/articleshow/82746324.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/technology/govt-ma... Nigeria did not ban crypto. "According to local publication TodayNG, Adamu Lamtek, the Deputy Governor of the monetary regulator, said that the CBN did not ban Nigerians from buying, selling or holding cryptocurrencies but protected the banking sector from the activities of cryptocurrencies. Additionally, he clarified that the central bank did not place any restrictions on cryptocurrencies in general and is not discouraging people from trading them." https://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/regulation/nigeria-didnt-ban-crypto-official-clarifies-on-earlier-order/ https://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/regulation/ni... Nothing stopping people in China or Nigeria from having crypto, just certain institutions. And I doubt India goes through with a full ban on it.
    - arcticbull 5y ago
      > Mm, re: Nigeria. CBN says: "Due to the fact that cryptocurrencies are largely speculative, anonymous and untraceable they are increasingly being used for money laundering, terrorism financing and other criminal activities." Further, it describes them as "volatile speculative assets that can be a danger to Nigerian users," and banks are "not to use, hold, trade and/or transact in cryptocurrencies." Further, all bank accounts associated with exchanges were ordered shut down in 2017 and reiterated in 2021. Also all bank accounts associated with individual traders. So yes, individual ownership is not illegal, although to call this an attempt to discourage would be pretty tepid. > India. India is, to date, moving forward with a complete ban, and the plan of record is to give folks 6 months to sell off all assets they may have. They have not completed this yet, and of course to your point they may not. We'll have to watch. > China. PBOC is not a fan. Exchanges are illegal, ICOs are illegal, and I'm not sure I'd want to be caught anywhere near cryptos in China. Just ask Zhao Dong. [1] > Clarification. I apologize for not having my facts entirely straight, I should have said "heavily restricted" instead of banned. [1] https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/104550/chinese-court-begins-trial-of-prominent-crypto-otc-trader-zhao-dong https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/104550/chinese-court-beg...
- rawtxapp 5y ago
  The way I look at it, the whole point of the exercise is that nobody (no governments, no corporation, no billionaire with a twitter account) can affect the network itself. If Bitcoin can't deliver on that promise, it doesn't deserve to exist and anybody who didn't do their due diligence should lose all their money (including me). As long as the network is alive, it will have some value to some people somewhere.
  - thefounder 5y ago
    >> it will have some value to some people somewhere. That's not really very assuring for someone who puts life savings into a such asset.
- dariusj18 5y ago
  I think the difference is influence vs control.
hooande 5y ago
what has a higher probability of losing your life savings over the next 10 years, your gov/central bankers or any kind of crypto?
- FatalLogic 5y ago
  10 years ago, the answer to that question would have obviously been: Any kind of crypto (though I'm not advocating anybody puts their life savings into crypto now)
- bingbong70 5y ago
  US dollar is guaranteed to lose at least 50% (lowball) of its value over the next the 10 years, most with this knowledge are choosing to protect wealth by investing in scarce assets. Bitcoin is an easy choice for wealth preservation as the most scarce/liquid/desirable asset available to most humans.

For sure, it's very risky, highly volatile and nobody should put more money than they are willing to lose. But if you don't trust your gov/central bankers then crypto is one(only?) way to opt out.

thefounder 5y ago

The issue is that the value of crypto is influenced by gov/central bankers as well. I really don't see how you could hold and trade assets if your gov doesn't want to. It can simply make it illegal like they did in China. As a business you can't sell services using illegal currency so your crypto currency treasure becomes worthless because you can't buy a loaf of bread with it.

arcticbull 5y ago
China, India and Nigeria have made - or are in the process of making - crypto illegal. That's about 30% of the world's population. More to come.
- cableshaft 5y ago
  China did not make crypto illegal. "China has banned crypto exchanges and initial coin offerings but has not barred individuals from holding cryptocurrencies." https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/18/china-bans-financial-payment-institutions-from-cryptocurrency-business.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/18/china-bans-financial-payment... India is likely to just regulate crypto, not ban it outright, even though an official made the claim back in March that they were going to: "The central government may form a fresh panel of experts to study the possibility of regulating cryptocurrency in India, three sources privy of the discussions told ET. This comes amid the prevailing view that the recommendations by a committee headed by former finance secretary Subhash Garg in 2019 for a blanket ban on these assets had become outdated." https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/technology/govt-may-set-up-new-panel-to-study-crypto-regulations/articleshow/82746324.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/technology/govt-ma... Nigeria did not ban crypto. "According to local publication TodayNG, Adamu Lamtek, the Deputy Governor of the monetary regulator, said that the CBN did not ban Nigerians from buying, selling or holding cryptocurrencies but protected the banking sector from the activities of cryptocurrencies. Additionally, he clarified that the central bank did not place any restrictions on cryptocurrencies in general and is not discouraging people from trading them." https://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/regulation/nigeria-didnt-ban-crypto-official-clarifies-on-earlier-order/ https://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/regulation/ni... Nothing stopping people in China or Nigeria from having crypto, just certain institutions. And I doubt India goes through with a full ban on it.
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    > Mm, re: Nigeria. CBN says: "Due to the fact that cryptocurrencies are largely speculative, anonymous and untraceable they are increasingly being used for money laundering, terrorism financing and other criminal activities." Further, it describes them as "volatile speculative assets that can be a danger to Nigerian users," and banks are "not to use, hold, trade and/or transact in cryptocurrencies." Further, all bank accounts associated with exchanges were ordered shut down in 2017 and reiterated in 2021. Also all bank accounts associated with individual traders. So yes, individual ownership is not illegal, although to call this an attempt to discourage would be pretty tepid. > India. India is, to date, moving forward with a complete ban, and the plan of record is to give folks 6 months to sell off all assets they may have. They have not completed this yet, and of course to your point they may not. We'll have to watch. > China. PBOC is not a fan. Exchanges are illegal, ICOs are illegal, and I'm not sure I'd want to be caught anywhere near cryptos in China. Just ask Zhao Dong. [1] > Clarification. I apologize for not having my facts entirely straight, I should have said "heavily restricted" instead of banned. [1] https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/104550/chinese-court-begins-trial-of-prominent-crypto-otc-trader-zhao-dong https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/104550/chinese-court-beg...
rawtxapp 5y ago
The way I look at it, the whole point of the exercise is that nobody (no governments, no corporation, no billionaire with a twitter account) can affect the network itself. If Bitcoin can't deliver on that promise, it doesn't deserve to exist and anybody who didn't do their due diligence should lose all their money (including me). As long as the network is alive, it will have some value to some people somewhere.
- thefounder 5y ago
  >> it will have some value to some people somewhere. That's not really very assuring for someone who puts life savings into a such asset.
dariusj18 5y ago
I think the difference is influence vs control.

hooande 5y ago

what has a higher probability of losing your life savings over the next 10 years, your gov/central bankers or any kind of crypto?

FatalLogic 5y ago
10 years ago, the answer to that question would have obviously been: Any kind of crypto (though I'm not advocating anybody puts their life savings into crypto now)
bingbong70 5y ago
US dollar is guaranteed to lose at least 50% (lowball) of its value over the next the 10 years, most with this knowledge are choosing to protect wealth by investing in scarce assets. Bitcoin is an easy choice for wealth preservation as the most scarce/liquid/desirable asset available to most humans.