7 ms·

Doesn't everyone do this? I remember at the age of five finally learning to control my falling dreams at night, to be able to freeze in the air and eventually f

Doesn't everyone do this? I remember at the age of five finally learning to control my falling dreams at night, to be able to freeze in the air and eventually fly (the Matrix scene definitely resonated later). This was the beginning of a continuous exercise of imagining things more and more exactly and controlling that imagination. Now as an engineer, I spend most of my time staring at a wall simulating and refining designs in my head. As Tesla notes, they are usually accurate. The most interesting cases however are when I can't quite be sure what will happen. Building those projects are some of the most exciting and often most valuable work. Besides imagination, simulating on a computer is useful, but more to explain an imagined design to others. Occassionaly, when simulations scale to a certain level of parallel interaction (like neural networks), those simulations take on the character of reality which may defy imagination. At least until enough experimentation and observation develops intuition.

Monroe13 5y ago
> Doesn't everyone do this? I wish I had the ability of imagination like you describe. I don’t think I have full-on aphantasia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphantasia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphantasia) but I definitely can’t run simulations in my mind.
- gfody 5y ago
  we're really lacking in ability to effectively describe the qualia of "imagining" - it could be that some people visualize internal fidelity more closely matching the raw signal of their optic nerve and others have an entirely separate way of experiencing. for myself I can say that I mentally visualize just fine but it is nothing at all like actual vision. if you asked me how is it different then this is where words fail. it's entirely different but I can't describe how.
  - yboris 5y ago
    My inner imagination pales in comparison to the visualizations I experience on LSD. This experience sets up a nice contrast of what my mind is capable of VS what I generally am able to do when imagining. I'm eager to try spending time imagining / visualizing things as I used to do when I was a kid, but it's hard to find time with all the exciting projects and busy life stuff in the way.
  - klyrs 5y ago
    It's weird. I can construct objects and run physics experiments in my head (not on Tesla's level), and it's a clear tactile sense to me, textures included. I can also play familiar tunes (in my youth this included symphonies, simplified into sections and solos) and mix flavors in my head. But the weirdest part is, I can hardly see a thing in there.
    - vagrantJin 5y ago
      I think most people in the culinary space spend a lot of time tasting imaginary dishes. Running experimental flavours before trying to make it. The caveat is that you probably should have a certain level of experience and mastery to make full use of this ability.
- vidarh 5y ago
  I do have aphantasia, and until reading about it a couple of years ago I had no idea most people meant it literally when they talked about seeing things in their mind outside of dreams. I can describe things in detail based on spatial relationships very accurately with my eyes closed, but at the very most I sometimes see vague subsecond flashes.
  - 0xfaded 5y ago
    Same here. I now describe how i imagine things as probably bring similar to how a blind person would imagine things. Cheekily, I sometimes claim I have no need to close my eyes when I think, so I can work simultaneously from what's modeled in my head.
shahar2k 5y ago
I was about to say this exact thing, when I finally sit down to make something physical... I generally have a fairly full idea of every aspect of it simply in my head, (admittedly I work with fairly basic mechanical setups using a laser cutter and general tech art)
gfody 5y ago
I think that as a race our mind evolves and modes of thinking that we take for granted today may have been unique to geniuses 100 years ago. Along these lines bicameralism is a neat theory that adds a whole dimension to old literature although it might be considered debunked these days.
- peanutz454 5y ago
  Evolution is painfully slow. Humans from 1000s of year ago are not very different from us, even in their intelligence. I believe the only trait that has changed recently is height, and there are explanations for it.
  - gfody 5y ago
    genetic evolution sure but memetic evolution is a whole new beast
cm2012 5y ago
I can visualize things well in my head but certainly can't do multi step things there. Like of I'm assembling idea furniture I can't piece it together in my head from the start, I'm blindly going one step at a time.
danybittel 5y ago
You may be exceptional. In my experience, it often works / looks perfect in the head. But putting it to paper, it falls apart quickly. Imagine a bicycle, it is easy to imagine it accurately. Then draw it (or construct it), one usually struggles a lot. The step to materialize it, is where you need a lot of practice. The worst are the the "idea" guys. They think they have already done all the work, and somebody else just needs to put it to paper. If you're that someone, expect lots of trial and error. He'll "know when he sees it", but can't give directions.
- mewpmewp2 5y ago
  I imagine it will vary widely depending on the complexity of something. The more complex something is the more likely you fail to predict some things accurately, so based on this conversation it's difficult to tell whether someone is exceptional or not, as exceptional would be when you are able to do more complex designs accurately than most other folks.
  - xyzzy123 5y ago
    I find when I imagine mechanical designs I can get a reasonable intuitive grasp of mechanism and kinetics. It might be the way my mind works but for me I "feel" the parts more then see them. But I can't visualise with accurate dimensions, and for me I find that matters a lot in terms of manufacturability. Even very simple designs I usually end up making several iterations on paper or in cad. It's only after dimensioning, doing some basic calculations (say, will this bit be strong enough), matching to available stock and parts, double checking the tooling I have to make sure I can actually make the things I've drawn, looking for interference and so on that I know what the design is really going to look like. People who are really good, I think, naturally design parts to minimise setup time and with the jigs and workholding they'll need to make them in mind. I'm not there yet... I still snooker myself on workholding or order of operations reasonably often.
  - aidenn0 5y ago
    Here's a story I heard about how people fail to imagine things they do daily: Have someone who knows how to drive sit in a chair, close their eyes and pretend to be driving. Ask them to make a lane change. Most people will turn the wheel slightly, then straighten it. A real lane change requires turning the wheel in the opposite direction to keep from moving past the lane you merge into. Being able to see details like that in your head is highly exceptional, IMO.
LouisSayers 5y ago
To a certain degree yes - it might depend on how well you really understand something. I also feel like this is a unique aspect of humans - to be able to anticipate / simulate cause and effect. I find with certain sports once you get the hang of it you do this. For me with aggressive inline skating I might imagine a lineup of tricks, getting the feeling for it before attempting the tricks. For boxing you can start to imagine an opponents punches and how you might slip or weave them followed by your own punches etc. For the folks talking about aphantasia, I find it difficult to hold a vivid image in my mind, so for me personally I don't so much see it, it's more like having the feeling for it or simulation via abstraction. As a kid I also would imagine that I could levitate. I would wonder if perhaps the reason people couldn't do some things like levitation is that they didn't try hard enough. If I lay still I would actually feel like I was lifting off the bed.
- yetihehe 5y ago
  > I would wonder if perhaps the reason people couldn't do some things like levitation is that they didn't try hard enough. I would describe that levitation trying like trying to move a paralysed limb. Like we had neuronal circuitry required for levitating, but it doesn't work anymore. Human senses interpretation is wonderful thing. You can even see through tongue or skin on your back (with electrode array connected to camera).
beambot 5y ago
It's really not all that common. Fascinating take on the subject: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/inner-monologue-experience-science-1.5486969 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/inner-monologue-... > According to Hulburt, not many people have an inner monologue 100 per cent of the time, but most do sometimes. He estimates that inner monologue is a frequent thing for 30 to 50 per cent of people.
ksec 5y ago
>Doesn't everyone do this? Ask how many developers visualise their design in their mind before they type a single line of code.

Monroe13 5y ago

> Doesn't everyone do this? I wish I had the ability of imagination like you describe. I don’t think I have full-on aphantasia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphantasia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphantasia) but I definitely can’t run simulations in my mind.

gfody 5y ago
we're really lacking in ability to effectively describe the qualia of "imagining" - it could be that some people visualize internal fidelity more closely matching the raw signal of their optic nerve and others have an entirely separate way of experiencing. for myself I can say that I mentally visualize just fine but it is nothing at all like actual vision. if you asked me how is it different then this is where words fail. it's entirely different but I can't describe how.
- yboris 5y ago
  My inner imagination pales in comparison to the visualizations I experience on LSD. This experience sets up a nice contrast of what my mind is capable of VS what I generally am able to do when imagining. I'm eager to try spending time imagining / visualizing things as I used to do when I was a kid, but it's hard to find time with all the exciting projects and busy life stuff in the way.
- klyrs 5y ago
  It's weird. I can construct objects and run physics experiments in my head (not on Tesla's level), and it's a clear tactile sense to me, textures included. I can also play familiar tunes (in my youth this included symphonies, simplified into sections and solos) and mix flavors in my head. But the weirdest part is, I can hardly see a thing in there.
  - vagrantJin 5y ago
    I think most people in the culinary space spend a lot of time tasting imaginary dishes. Running experimental flavours before trying to make it. The caveat is that you probably should have a certain level of experience and mastery to make full use of this ability.
vidarh 5y ago
I do have aphantasia, and until reading about it a couple of years ago I had no idea most people meant it literally when they talked about seeing things in their mind outside of dreams. I can describe things in detail based on spatial relationships very accurately with my eyes closed, but at the very most I sometimes see vague subsecond flashes.
- 0xfaded 5y ago
  Same here. I now describe how i imagine things as probably bring similar to how a blind person would imagine things. Cheekily, I sometimes claim I have no need to close my eyes when I think, so I can work simultaneously from what's modeled in my head.

shahar2k 5y ago

I was about to say this exact thing, when I finally sit down to make something physical... I generally have a fairly full idea of every aspect of it simply in my head, (admittedly I work with fairly basic mechanical setups using a laser cutter and general tech art)

gfody 5y ago

I think that as a race our mind evolves and modes of thinking that we take for granted today may have been unique to geniuses 100 years ago. Along these lines bicameralism is a neat theory that adds a whole dimension to old literature although it might be considered debunked these days.

peanutz454 5y ago
Evolution is painfully slow. Humans from 1000s of year ago are not very different from us, even in their intelligence. I believe the only trait that has changed recently is height, and there are explanations for it.
- gfody 5y ago
  genetic evolution sure but memetic evolution is a whole new beast

cm2012 5y ago

I can visualize things well in my head but certainly can't do multi step things there. Like of I'm assembling idea furniture I can't piece it together in my head from the start, I'm blindly going one step at a time.

danybittel 5y ago

You may be exceptional. In my experience, it often works / looks perfect in the head. But putting it to paper, it falls apart quickly. Imagine a bicycle, it is easy to imagine it accurately. Then draw it (or construct it), one usually struggles a lot. The step to materialize it, is where you need a lot of practice. The worst are the the "idea" guys. They think they have already done all the work, and somebody else just needs to put it to paper. If you're that someone, expect lots of trial and error. He'll "know when he sees it", but can't give directions.

mewpmewp2 5y ago
I imagine it will vary widely depending on the complexity of something. The more complex something is the more likely you fail to predict some things accurately, so based on this conversation it's difficult to tell whether someone is exceptional or not, as exceptional would be when you are able to do more complex designs accurately than most other folks.
- xyzzy123 5y ago
  I find when I imagine mechanical designs I can get a reasonable intuitive grasp of mechanism and kinetics. It might be the way my mind works but for me I "feel" the parts more then see them. But I can't visualise with accurate dimensions, and for me I find that matters a lot in terms of manufacturability. Even very simple designs I usually end up making several iterations on paper or in cad. It's only after dimensioning, doing some basic calculations (say, will this bit be strong enough), matching to available stock and parts, double checking the tooling I have to make sure I can actually make the things I've drawn, looking for interference and so on that I know what the design is really going to look like. People who are really good, I think, naturally design parts to minimise setup time and with the jigs and workholding they'll need to make them in mind. I'm not there yet... I still snooker myself on workholding or order of operations reasonably often.
- aidenn0 5y ago
  Here's a story I heard about how people fail to imagine things they do daily: Have someone who knows how to drive sit in a chair, close their eyes and pretend to be driving. Ask them to make a lane change. Most people will turn the wheel slightly, then straighten it. A real lane change requires turning the wheel in the opposite direction to keep from moving past the lane you merge into. Being able to see details like that in your head is highly exceptional, IMO.

LouisSayers 5y ago

To a certain degree yes - it might depend on how well you really understand something. I also feel like this is a unique aspect of humans - to be able to anticipate / simulate cause and effect. I find with certain sports once you get the hang of it you do this. For me with aggressive inline skating I might imagine a lineup of tricks, getting the feeling for it before attempting the tricks. For boxing you can start to imagine an opponents punches and how you might slip or weave them followed by your own punches etc. For the folks talking about aphantasia, I find it difficult to hold a vivid image in my mind, so for me personally I don't so much see it, it's more like having the feeling for it or simulation via abstraction. As a kid I also would imagine that I could levitate. I would wonder if perhaps the reason people couldn't do some things like levitation is that they didn't try hard enough. If I lay still I would actually feel like I was lifting off the bed.

yetihehe 5y ago
> I would wonder if perhaps the reason people couldn't do some things like levitation is that they didn't try hard enough. I would describe that levitation trying like trying to move a paralysed limb. Like we had neuronal circuitry required for levitating, but it doesn't work anymore. Human senses interpretation is wonderful thing. You can even see through tongue or skin on your back (with electrode array connected to camera).

beambot 5y ago

It's really not all that common. Fascinating take on the subject: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/inner-monologue-experience-science-1.5486969 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/inner-monologue-... > According to Hulburt, not many people have an inner monologue 100 per cent of the time, but most do sometimes. He estimates that inner monologue is a frequent thing for 30 to 50 per cent of people.

ksec 5y ago

>Doesn't everyone do this? Ask how many developers visualise their design in their mind before they type a single line of code.