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I live in SF but I admit I don't really keep up with politics and policy as much as I should. Is our police force actually strapped for resources? I saw an ad o

by clpm4j 5y ago

I live in SF but I admit I don't really keep up with politics and policy as much as I should. Is our police force actually strapped for resources? I saw an ad on a muni stop the other day for SF Police that highlighted a starting salary of $95k which seems pretty attractive.

o0-0o 5y ago
95K is not that much when two of your largest thoughts every day are; 1) how do I not die, and 2) how do I not get sued.
- clpm4j 5y ago
  For sure. But every cop has to deal with those thoughts, and most do it for far less than $95k. At the very least it seems enticing enough to attract a sizable pool of applicants.
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    Are you comparing incomes in different locations without factoring in the cost of living difference?
    - clpm4j 5y ago
      I factored it in casually but didn't do any arithmetic. My point wasn't really that 95k is a lot, but it's a pretty solid starting salary in any city. Certainly more than my starting salary out of college.. by about 30k. And I lived in NYC on my starting salary so I understand the COL factor. I've also lived in SF on less than 100k and as long as you have a roommate or two, which most 'starting salary'-age people do, then 95k can go pretty far. This wasn't even really my main point which was essentially "are these criminals not being arrested because our police force is understaffed / strapped for resources, or is it the case that we have plenty of cops but they just don't bother to go after these criminals"...
- tomerico 5y ago
  1) there has not been police officer death in SF in 15 years [1] 2) Unlike most professions, police officers enjoy qualified immunity which prevent civil charges from being pursued in all but most extreme cases.
gnicholas 5y ago
Bay Area cops can make a decent chunk of change. I was surprised when I saw a FB announcement by a local officer who purchased a $2M home in Millbrae. He's in his early 30's and may have some sort of residual pay from his time in the armed forces. But I think a lot of it comes from overtime pay, which can really add up.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  To be clear, a $2M home in Millbrae is no mansion. Homes in Millbrae cost an average of $964/ft². The national average is $123/ft². It's equivalent to about a $250K home in an average town.
  - gnicholas 5y ago
    Not a mansion, but it's still notable that an officer could accumulate a 20% downpayment with post-tax earnings. That's $400,000, which would require banking $40,000 of after-tax earnings per year for 10 years. That's perhaps $60,000 in pre-tax earnings.
    - akvadrako 5y ago
      Or he formerly owned a home which cost a lot less and could easily sell for $500k profit.
    - jtms 5y ago
      Also the annual property taxes on that place would be substantial
dcolkitt 5y ago
Decades of research in management has shown that money is not the sole, or even major, driver of workplace motivation. Workers of all type, including cops, are motivated to put in hard work when they feel like their efforts are recognized and contribute to making a tangible difference. Generally that's the exact opposite that police in SF have faced over the past few years. Rather than being recognized and respected, they've been repeatedly told, by their own superiors, that they're abusive, reckless and part of a system of oppression. Rather than making a difference, they're participants in a Kafka-esque circus where the criminals they arrest in the morning are released and committing crimes by the afternoon. I agree that criminal justice reform is important. But there's no politically viable route to that end if it means a mass decline in public safety. And there's no way to ensure public safety, unless police officers feel valued, empowered, motivated and proud to show up for work. You can't just repeatedly demonize and bureaucratize the police, and not expect their performance to degrade because you throw money at them.
- mycall 5y ago
  If the police force becomes useless, do you think the CCSF laws might change for self protection to become easier? I know guns are outlawed and knifes of certain length (as an example).
andyxor 5y ago
that salary is less attractive considering the current trend of blaming and even defunding police for doing their job. who in their right mind would want to protect and serve when they are called "murderers" and "racists" on daily basis and any routine arrest can potentially lead to country wide riots and years in prison for the officer.

by clpm4j 5y ago

o0-0o 5y ago

95K is not that much when two of your largest thoughts every day are; 1) how do I not die, and 2) how do I not get sued.

clpm4j 5y ago
For sure. But every cop has to deal with those thoughts, and most do it for far less than $95k. At the very least it seems enticing enough to attract a sizable pool of applicants.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  Are you comparing incomes in different locations without factoring in the cost of living difference?
  - clpm4j 5y ago
    I factored it in casually but didn't do any arithmetic. My point wasn't really that 95k is a lot, but it's a pretty solid starting salary in any city. Certainly more than my starting salary out of college.. by about 30k. And I lived in NYC on my starting salary so I understand the COL factor. I've also lived in SF on less than 100k and as long as you have a roommate or two, which most 'starting salary'-age people do, then 95k can go pretty far. This wasn't even really my main point which was essentially "are these criminals not being arrested because our police force is understaffed / strapped for resources, or is it the case that we have plenty of cops but they just don't bother to go after these criminals"...
tomerico 5y ago
1) there has not been police officer death in SF in 15 years [1] 2) Unlike most professions, police officers enjoy qualified immunity which prevent civil charges from being pursued in all but most extreme cases.

gnicholas 5y ago

Bay Area cops can make a decent chunk of change. I was surprised when I saw a FB announcement by a local officer who purchased a $2M home in Millbrae. He's in his early 30's and may have some sort of residual pay from his time in the armed forces. But I think a lot of it comes from overtime pay, which can really add up.

josephcsible 5y ago
To be clear, a $2M home in Millbrae is no mansion. Homes in Millbrae cost an average of $964/ft². The national average is $123/ft². It's equivalent to about a $250K home in an average town.
- gnicholas 5y ago
  Not a mansion, but it's still notable that an officer could accumulate a 20% downpayment with post-tax earnings. That's $400,000, which would require banking $40,000 of after-tax earnings per year for 10 years. That's perhaps $60,000 in pre-tax earnings.
  - akvadrako 5y ago
    Or he formerly owned a home which cost a lot less and could easily sell for $500k profit.
  - jtms 5y ago
    Also the annual property taxes on that place would be substantial

dcolkitt 5y ago

Decades of research in management has shown that money is not the sole, or even major, driver of workplace motivation. Workers of all type, including cops, are motivated to put in hard work when they feel like their efforts are recognized and contribute to making a tangible difference. Generally that's the exact opposite that police in SF have faced over the past few years. Rather than being recognized and respected, they've been repeatedly told, by their own superiors, that they're abusive, reckless and part of a system of oppression. Rather than making a difference, they're participants in a Kafka-esque circus where the criminals they arrest in the morning are released and committing crimes by the afternoon. I agree that criminal justice reform is important. But there's no politically viable route to that end if it means a mass decline in public safety. And there's no way to ensure public safety, unless police officers feel valued, empowered, motivated and proud to show up for work. You can't just repeatedly demonize and bureaucratize the police, and not expect their performance to degrade because you throw money at them.

mycall 5y ago
If the police force becomes useless, do you think the CCSF laws might change for self protection to become easier? I know guns are outlawed and knifes of certain length (as an example).

andyxor 5y ago

that salary is less attractive considering the current trend of blaming and even defunding police for doing their job. who in their right mind would want to protect and serve when they are called "murderers" and "racists" on daily basis and any routine arrest can potentially lead to country wide riots and years in prison for the officer.