6 ms·

Endless homeless people and camps, needles on the streets, feces on the streets, yelling drunks, crime and burglaries. Yeah, SF definitely has a “lot” going fo

Endless homeless people and camps, needles on the streets, feces on the streets, yelling drunks, crime and burglaries. Yeah, SF definitely has a “lot” going for it. Glad I left.

Animats 5y ago
The backlash against homeless people is coming.[1] There's a GoFundMe for a scheme for national homeless concentration camps.[2] "The plan calls for the construction of 6 Homeless Help Campuses. These would be built on Federal Land by the Army Corps of Engineers and would be funded by the Federal Government through grants to the hosting states. Targeted states are California, Washington, Colorado, Illinois, New Jersey and Georgia. Each campus will hold up to 50,000 residents. The campuses will include all services required by the residents including K-12 education, a trade tech college, physical and mental health care programs and will even include a local community based policing agency." [1] https://www.sfchronicle.com/local/article/California-s-reopening-is-colliding-with-an-16174581.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/local/article/California-s-reope... [2] https://homelesshelpamerica.com/ https://homelesshelpamerica.com/
- dang 5y ago
  You have a substantive point and this is an interesting comment but please don't toss in flamebait like "concentration camps" - it will just create a flamewar and with Godwin-colored flames at that. Thoughtful critique is fine of course.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    That’s what a concentration camp is though. It’s not hyperbole it’s literally the idea of them. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment
    - dang 5y ago
      The historical origin of the term is one thing, the historical associations of it are another, and it's not possible for people to argue about it on the internet without flamewar. The HN approach is to observe that we don't need to go there, and then not to go there.
      - rovolo 5y ago
        I understand that you don't want to use the term "concentration camp" because it's associated with Nazi extermination camps. What term would you prefer instead, "internment camp"? There really needs to be a term which people can use to describe sweeping up classes of people and confining them to an area.
        dang 5y ago
        Yes, that is a more neutral term, for the reason you mention—but only if it is used where strictly accurate, and not as an exaggeration to score rhetorical points. When I looked yesterday, it wasn't clear to me what's actually being proposed at the site the GP was linking to. If it really is a proposal for involuntary confinement, then the word internment seems justified, otherwise surely not.
- jgon 5y ago
  Incredible timing on their part! They just need to build it as part of SF proper and not Corps of Engineers land and get it done for 2024 and they’ll be right on the mark: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Sanctuary_District https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Sanctuary_District https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Past_Tense,_Part_I_(episode) https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Past_Tense,_Part_I_(epi...
- chipotle_coyote 5y ago
  I would disagree with your framing here on two points: (1) The "backlash" is not "coming," it's always been here. NIMBYs are not a new phenomenon and there will always be cranky people who respond to the plight of the homeless with "won't someone think of the property values." So it goes. (1) More significantly: that is not remotely a serious organization. It's a few NIMBYs from LA who got sticks up their asses about a city council member proposing a homeless encampment near where they live. Come on, take a look around that web site: the "board of directors" have no bios or information, the "case studies" are nothing of the sort, there's no indication they've done any of the filings necessary to be a real non-profit. The site is, as near as I can tell, built using GoDaddy's free site builder (which is why it has the "Powered by GoDaddy" link in the footer: they're too cheap to pay a few bucks to turn it off), and it still has placeholder text like "Add a footnote if this applies to your business." I mean, sure, even obvious cranks can get people to take them seriously -- but this is at best a group to keep an eye on. "The plan" you quoted is their pipe dream, not an actual plan any government agency has committed funds for.
  - sbierwagen 5y ago
    Using "NIMBY" to mean "people who don't want to be near homeless camps" is a bit of a stretch.
jethro_tell 5y ago
Where did you go since that's the topic of conversation?

Endless homeless people and camps, needles on the streets, feces on the streets, yelling drunks, crime and burglaries. Yeah, SF definitely has a “lot” going for it. Glad I left.

Animats 5y ago

The backlash against homeless people is coming.[1] There's a GoFundMe for a scheme for national homeless concentration camps.[2] "The plan calls for the construction of 6 Homeless Help Campuses. These would be built on Federal Land by the Army Corps of Engineers and would be funded by the Federal Government through grants to the hosting states. Targeted states are California, Washington, Colorado, Illinois, New Jersey and Georgia. Each campus will hold up to 50,000 residents. The campuses will include all services required by the residents including K-12 education, a trade tech college, physical and mental health care programs and will even include a local community based policing agency." [1] https://www.sfchronicle.com/local/article/California-s-reopening-is-colliding-with-an-16174581.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/local/article/California-s-reope... [2] https://homelesshelpamerica.com/ https://homelesshelpamerica.com/

dang 5y ago
You have a substantive point and this is an interesting comment but please don't toss in flamebait like "concentration camps" - it will just create a flamewar and with Godwin-colored flames at that. Thoughtful critique is fine of course.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  That’s what a concentration camp is though. It’s not hyperbole it’s literally the idea of them. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment
  - dang 5y ago
    The historical origin of the term is one thing, the historical associations of it are another, and it's not possible for people to argue about it on the internet without flamewar. The HN approach is to observe that we don't need to go there, and then not to go there.
    - rovolo 5y ago
      I understand that you don't want to use the term "concentration camp" because it's associated with Nazi extermination camps. What term would you prefer instead, "internment camp"? There really needs to be a term which people can use to describe sweeping up classes of people and confining them to an area.
      - dang 5y ago
        Yes, that is a more neutral term, for the reason you mention—but only if it is used where strictly accurate, and not as an exaggeration to score rhetorical points. When I looked yesterday, it wasn't clear to me what's actually being proposed at the site the GP was linking to. If it really is a proposal for involuntary confinement, then the word internment seems justified, otherwise surely not.
jgon 5y ago
Incredible timing on their part! They just need to build it as part of SF proper and not Corps of Engineers land and get it done for 2024 and they’ll be right on the mark: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Sanctuary_District https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Sanctuary_District https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Past_Tense,_Part_I_(episode) https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Past_Tense,_Part_I_(epi...
chipotle_coyote 5y ago
I would disagree with your framing here on two points: (1) The "backlash" is not "coming," it's always been here. NIMBYs are not a new phenomenon and there will always be cranky people who respond to the plight of the homeless with "won't someone think of the property values." So it goes. (1) More significantly: that is not remotely a serious organization. It's a few NIMBYs from LA who got sticks up their asses about a city council member proposing a homeless encampment near where they live. Come on, take a look around that web site: the "board of directors" have no bios or information, the "case studies" are nothing of the sort, there's no indication they've done any of the filings necessary to be a real non-profit. The site is, as near as I can tell, built using GoDaddy's free site builder (which is why it has the "Powered by GoDaddy" link in the footer: they're too cheap to pay a few bucks to turn it off), and it still has placeholder text like "Add a footnote if this applies to your business." I mean, sure, even obvious cranks can get people to take them seriously -- but this is at best a group to keep an eye on. "The plan" you quoted is their pipe dream, not an actual plan any government agency has committed funds for.
- sbierwagen 5y ago
  Using "NIMBY" to mean "people who don't want to be near homeless camps" is a bit of a stretch.

jethro_tell 5y ago

Where did you go since that's the topic of conversation?