3 ms·

- The camera: that one's more difficult, but optics or chemistry aren't that new. You may need specialised equipment to manufacture this, but it's still possibl

- The camera: that one's more difficult, but optics or chemistry aren't that new. You may need specialised equipment to manufacture this, but it's still possible. creating a functioning camera requires quite advanced machining to create parts with tolerances required. The same goes for most other items on the list, except for seeds and books. Creating an axe by hand is obviously possible, but getting the high-quality steel we use in the modern day is very hard without industrialization. Without a lathe and a way to power it, getting a camera is nearly impossible. Creating flat glass is also quite a difficult proces which requires melted lead or tin.

owenversteeg 5y ago
I've given this a decent bit of thought, and in the unlikely situation that you're living a life with no access to modern materials, you're probably living a pretty busy life. Things you've never thought of, like gathering dry wood, finding potable water, stockpiling food, determining what's edible, constructing shelter and protecting yourself from danger will probably take up almost all your time in your first year, if you make it that long. This is of course very dependent on where you are - in many climates you'll be 24/7 trying to survive, but if you're in a fertile area with good weather, maybe some access to fish, you'll probably have a handful of extra hours here and there for fun projects. Hunter-gatherers in a tropical climate with abundant food, thousands of years of experience and a stable societal structure have around 4 hours per day of free time [0] - you will probably not have those things, so count on much less. What that means is that your time is the most valuable thing. (And materials, which take lots of time to obtain.) So if you begin to price out the time cost of acquiring all the materials to create a furnace and glass, it'll be enormous. The same goes for a steel axe, or books from wood pulp. In fact, anything from metal is an enormous amount of work, so I'd probably leave it aside. But that doesn't mean you can't have an axe, or paper, or glass - you simply have to look at what people used to do. Stone axes work fine [1], paper from birch bark is great, and mica makes a decent glass replacement. (If you get lucky, you'll find large mica sheets, which are clear as glass - if you're not, you can attach small ones together, but it won't be clear.) If you're in a cold enough climate, and you survive the winter, ice can be a replacement for glass and a weapon. As for the camera - no way you'll get a functioning "modern" camera with optics and an aperture and everything. I would simply build a camera obscura and use my birch bark - the biggest technical challenge there is getting a totally dark "room", which could probably be done the simplest by making a dirt hut with a wooden front and a pinhole made of birch bark coated in ash. (The thinner the hole material, the better.) If you had people to trade with, and plenty of time, I suppose it would be possible (if difficult) to make a photosensitive plate that you could use with your pinhole. [0] https://sci-hub.do/10.1038/s41562-019-0614-6 https://sci-hub.do/10.1038/s41562-019-0614-6 [1] They only take about 3-4 times longer to cut wood than steel: https://sci-hub.do/https://doi.org/10.2307/3772981 https://sci-hub.do/https://doi.org/10.2307/3772981
- selfhoster11 5y ago
  In Amish and pre-civilised societies you are never on your own for that precise reason. The modern idea of going "off the grid" as a lone wolf only works when you have the leverage of modern, post-Industrial Revolution tech to help you along. Remove that, and division of labour within a community becomes the only means to reliably produce something before you grow old. If specialised, time-consuming work needs to be done, two options come to mind: - several people rotating on shifts to donate some of their respective 4 spare hours to work on the long-term project - several people working to provide nutrition and heating for themselves as well as for one other designated person who's the local manufacturing expert, and who proceeds to dedicate all their time to the long-term project. > As for the camera - no way you'll get a functioning "modern" camera with optics and an aperture and everything. I would simply build a camera obscura and use my birch bark - the biggest technical challenge there is getting a totally dark "room", which could probably be done the simplest by making a dirt hut with a wooden front and a pinhole made of birch bark coated in ash. (The thinner the hole material, the better.) If you had people to trade with, and plenty of time, I suppose it would be possible (if difficult) to make a photosensitive plate that you could use with your pinhole. That I agree with. A bellows camera on a tripod is probably the closest thing one can make with basic tools that's not fixed in place.

owenversteeg 5y ago

I've given this a decent bit of thought, and in the unlikely situation that you're living a life with no access to modern materials, you're probably living a pretty busy life. Things you've never thought of, like gathering dry wood, finding potable water, stockpiling food, determining what's edible, constructing shelter and protecting yourself from danger will probably take up almost all your time in your first year, if you make it that long. This is of course very dependent on where you are - in many climates you'll be 24/7 trying to survive, but if you're in a fertile area with good weather, maybe some access to fish, you'll probably have a handful of extra hours here and there for fun projects. Hunter-gatherers in a tropical climate with abundant food, thousands of years of experience and a stable societal structure have around 4 hours per day of free time [0] - you will probably not have those things, so count on much less. What that means is that your time is the most valuable thing. (And materials, which take lots of time to obtain.) So if you begin to price out the time cost of acquiring all the materials to create a furnace and glass, it'll be enormous. The same goes for a steel axe, or books from wood pulp. In fact, anything from metal is an enormous amount of work, so I'd probably leave it aside. But that doesn't mean you can't have an axe, or paper, or glass - you simply have to look at what people used to do. Stone axes work fine [1], paper from birch bark is great, and mica makes a decent glass replacement. (If you get lucky, you'll find large mica sheets, which are clear as glass - if you're not, you can attach small ones together, but it won't be clear.) If you're in a cold enough climate, and you survive the winter, ice can be a replacement for glass and a weapon. As for the camera - no way you'll get a functioning "modern" camera with optics and an aperture and everything. I would simply build a camera obscura and use my birch bark - the biggest technical challenge there is getting a totally dark "room", which could probably be done the simplest by making a dirt hut with a wooden front and a pinhole made of birch bark coated in ash. (The thinner the hole material, the better.) If you had people to trade with, and plenty of time, I suppose it would be possible (if difficult) to make a photosensitive plate that you could use with your pinhole. [0] https://sci-hub.do/10.1038/s41562-019-0614-6 https://sci-hub.do/10.1038/s41562-019-0614-6 [1] They only take about 3-4 times longer to cut wood than steel: https://sci-hub.do/https://doi.org/10.2307/3772981 https://sci-hub.do/https://doi.org/10.2307/3772981

selfhoster11 5y ago
In Amish and pre-civilised societies you are never on your own for that precise reason. The modern idea of going "off the grid" as a lone wolf only works when you have the leverage of modern, post-Industrial Revolution tech to help you along. Remove that, and division of labour within a community becomes the only means to reliably produce something before you grow old. If specialised, time-consuming work needs to be done, two options come to mind: - several people rotating on shifts to donate some of their respective 4 spare hours to work on the long-term project - several people working to provide nutrition and heating for themselves as well as for one other designated person who's the local manufacturing expert, and who proceeds to dedicate all their time to the long-term project. > As for the camera - no way you'll get a functioning "modern" camera with optics and an aperture and everything. I would simply build a camera obscura and use my birch bark - the biggest technical challenge there is getting a totally dark "room", which could probably be done the simplest by making a dirt hut with a wooden front and a pinhole made of birch bark coated in ash. (The thinner the hole material, the better.) If you had people to trade with, and plenty of time, I suppose it would be possible (if difficult) to make a photosensitive plate that you could use with your pinhole. That I agree with. A bellows camera on a tripod is probably the closest thing one can make with basic tools that's not fixed in place.