7 ms·

By moving to Microsoft Edge, you get everything described above plus you’ll be able to extend the life of your legacy websites and apps well beyond the Internet

by jefftk 5y ago

By moving to Microsoft Edge, you get everything described above plus you’ll be able to extend the life of your legacy websites and apps well beyond the Internet Explorer 11 desktop application retirement date using IE mode. Internet Explorer mode in Microsoft Edge will be supported through at least 2029. While IE11 as an independent program is going away, the rendering engine is still around for 8+y. Here's hoping that this deprecation removes the expectation that things support IE11, however!

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ilkkao 5y ago
I think it will. Just tested the IE mode, you need to manually enable it for every time. I think it's annoying enough.
- Kneecaps07 5y ago
  In an AD environment, you can push out a centralized list that is easy to update. We've found that IE Mode unfortunately works very well. I wish it didn't work so well because it allows us to keep these IE sites around indefinitely.
  - joshmanders 5y ago
    While it keeps existing IE11 compatible sites around indefinitely, it stops everyone else from having to support IE11 because that's the default and only browser IT allows on the machine.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - SilverRed 5y ago
      This is the main point. Now no one will have to support IE because any IE user has easier access to a more capable browser.
  - mr_toad 5y ago
    > In an AD environment, you can push out a centralized list that is easy to update. You can even disable the ability for users to change it, forcing IE mode on sites where it doesn’t work. It’s my second most hated abuse of group policy.
- drdec 5y ago
  Can't you use the X-UA-Compatible header with value IE=11? https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/openspecs/ie_standards/ms-iedoco/380e2488-f5eb-4457-a07a-0cb1b6e4b4b5 https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/openspecs/ie_standards/ms-i...
brundolf 5y ago
Imagine being the engineer who has to keep maintaining the IE codebase for the next 8 years. [shudders]
- als0 5y ago
  This must be what hell is like.
  - nitrogen 5y ago
    Managing a legacy codebase can be a lot of fun if one thinks of oneself as a digital analog to Indiana Jones or Sherlock Holmes. It does take more work to keep up one's reputation though.
- eric__cartman 5y ago
  I doubt anyone will be actively maintaining it once it gets implemented as a rendering engine in Edge. It will probably be implemented including the existing bugs as issues and remain unchanged until it's late retirement date. Kind of what happened with flash player.
- Mountain_Skies 5y ago
  While I wouldn't want to do it, if you've been working on that codebase for years and you're no longer young and fired up about always going for the latest things, it could be a good way to sunset your career. A guaranteed position using technology you understand rather than being thrown out into the job market, struggling to get up to date on the latest programming fads so you can compete with people half your age, would be nice for many.
  - brundolf 5y ago
    That's fair! I guess I just assume the codebase is terrible (not just because of age, but also judging by the end-product) and will remain terrible; why would you do a refactor, or optimize something, or add new features when it's become a niche project that nobody likes and is on its way out? It's probably just patching over critical bugs from here forward It's not just about doing something new; a bad codebase that I don't have the opportunity to genuinely improve is probably the most miserable type of project I can possibly think of
crazygringo 5y ago
But that'll only be whitelisted for legacy corporate sites/apps that need it. Anything new can safely ignore IE11, because Edge won't be using the IE11 engine for it. This is great, because it'll get corporations to replace the actual IE11 executable with the Edge executable.
- daigoba66 5y ago
  > because it'll get corporations to replace the actual IE11 executable with the Edge executable. I’m probably just cynical, but nothing caused corporations to get rid of IE11 before, and nothing will now. Working on an enterprise b2b web app, I’m going to have to support IE11 indefinitely.
  - crazygringo 5y ago
    > and nothing will now Yes it will. Microsoft is gradually pulling out all support for it, with this year being the big start of that. Very soon, it'll become more work for admins to maintain IE11 installations than it will be for them to migrate to Edge with IE11 compatibility mode. Admins tend to choose the path of least work. You're only going to need to support IE11 indefinitely if your enterprise app requires IE11. Otherwise, your company is probably going to be able to pull the plug at some point in the next 2 years, depending on your specific customer base.
Foe 5y ago
This is what I love about Microsoft. While Google is eager to go ahead and cancel Google Cloud Print and say "find an alternative before next month", Microsoft would be the company to announce it'll be cancelled in 2023, extended support lasts until 2029, and you can buy Extended Warranty 365+ for Business that lasts until 2067.
- hangonhn 5y ago
  I think that's what happens when your root is in enterprise software or at least some of your heritage is in enterprise. I have no great love for MSFT but I agree with you about their willingness to support things well past their expected expiration. IIRC they even went so far as to detect programs that used some "bugs" in earlier versions of Windows and emulated those same buggy behaviors just for those programs.
  - thatfunkymunki 5y ago
    https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/2hwlrk/new_windows_version_will_be_called_windows_10/ckwq83x/ https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/2hwlrk/new_wind... comes to mind, which explains (at least partially) why Windows 10 came directly after Windows 8.1
    - golergka 5y ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2281932 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2281932 Microsoft has a long reputation of fixing bugs caused by other people's software and their incorrect assumptions about Windows.
  - flatiron 5y ago
    Too lazy to look but I believe someone in a vm went from windows 1.0 to windows 7 (with all upgrades in between) and some of their personalization options from 1.0 (or maybe 3.11) were still present in 7. Insane!
    - datameta 5y ago
wvenable 5y ago
We have a critical 3rd party business app that absolutely requires IE11 (actually it requires IE11 to be in compatibility mode for IE5 or something). We currently use Internet Explorer only for this app and I think we will welcome the change to IE11 mode in Edge. Luckily it only to last another year or so before we replace this product. Some people don't understand the cost and effort required to replace some of these older but hugely important legacy products.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
lbriner 5y ago
> Here's hoping that this deprecation removes the expectation that things support IE11, however! Always sounds good in theory but when trying to maximise reach, it can be hard to instantly tell a whole bunch of the web, who might be running old PCs, that they can't use your site any more. Also, when you have large corporate customers, you often do not have enough muscle to tell them that unless they upgrade their client browsers, they can no longer use your service. That decision might sound simple but there can be loads of regulatory or accreditation hurdles to overcome to use a new browser and it can affect 1000s of corporate employees.
brnt 5y ago
I wonder if MS will remove Webview and ship Webview2 by default now.

by jefftk 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

ilkkao 5y ago

I think it will. Just tested the IE mode, you need to manually enable it for every time. I think it's annoying enough.

Kneecaps07 5y ago
In an AD environment, you can push out a centralized list that is easy to update. We've found that IE Mode unfortunately works very well. I wish it didn't work so well because it allows us to keep these IE sites around indefinitely.
- joshmanders 5y ago
  While it keeps existing IE11 compatible sites around indefinitely, it stops everyone else from having to support IE11 because that's the default and only browser IT allows on the machine.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - SilverRed 5y ago
    This is the main point. Now no one will have to support IE because any IE user has easier access to a more capable browser.
- mr_toad 5y ago
  > In an AD environment, you can push out a centralized list that is easy to update. You can even disable the ability for users to change it, forcing IE mode on sites where it doesn’t work. It’s my second most hated abuse of group policy.
drdec 5y ago
Can't you use the X-UA-Compatible header with value IE=11? https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/openspecs/ie_standards/ms-iedoco/380e2488-f5eb-4457-a07a-0cb1b6e4b4b5 https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/openspecs/ie_standards/ms-i...

brundolf 5y ago

Imagine being the engineer who has to keep maintaining the IE codebase for the next 8 years. [shudders]

als0 5y ago
This must be what hell is like.
- nitrogen 5y ago
  Managing a legacy codebase can be a lot of fun if one thinks of oneself as a digital analog to Indiana Jones or Sherlock Holmes. It does take more work to keep up one's reputation though.
eric__cartman 5y ago
I doubt anyone will be actively maintaining it once it gets implemented as a rendering engine in Edge. It will probably be implemented including the existing bugs as issues and remain unchanged until it's late retirement date. Kind of what happened with flash player.
Mountain_Skies 5y ago
While I wouldn't want to do it, if you've been working on that codebase for years and you're no longer young and fired up about always going for the latest things, it could be a good way to sunset your career. A guaranteed position using technology you understand rather than being thrown out into the job market, struggling to get up to date on the latest programming fads so you can compete with people half your age, would be nice for many.
- brundolf 5y ago
  That's fair! I guess I just assume the codebase is terrible (not just because of age, but also judging by the end-product) and will remain terrible; why would you do a refactor, or optimize something, or add new features when it's become a niche project that nobody likes and is on its way out? It's probably just patching over critical bugs from here forward It's not just about doing something new; a bad codebase that I don't have the opportunity to genuinely improve is probably the most miserable type of project I can possibly think of

crazygringo 5y ago

But that'll only be whitelisted for legacy corporate sites/apps that need it. Anything new can safely ignore IE11, because Edge won't be using the IE11 engine for it. This is great, because it'll get corporations to replace the actual IE11 executable with the Edge executable.

daigoba66 5y ago
> because it'll get corporations to replace the actual IE11 executable with the Edge executable. I’m probably just cynical, but nothing caused corporations to get rid of IE11 before, and nothing will now. Working on an enterprise b2b web app, I’m going to have to support IE11 indefinitely.
- crazygringo 5y ago
  > and nothing will now Yes it will. Microsoft is gradually pulling out all support for it, with this year being the big start of that. Very soon, it'll become more work for admins to maintain IE11 installations than it will be for them to migrate to Edge with IE11 compatibility mode. Admins tend to choose the path of least work. You're only going to need to support IE11 indefinitely if your enterprise app requires IE11. Otherwise, your company is probably going to be able to pull the plug at some point in the next 2 years, depending on your specific customer base.

Foe 5y ago

This is what I love about Microsoft. While Google is eager to go ahead and cancel Google Cloud Print and say "find an alternative before next month", Microsoft would be the company to announce it'll be cancelled in 2023, extended support lasts until 2029, and you can buy Extended Warranty 365+ for Business that lasts until 2067.

hangonhn 5y ago
I think that's what happens when your root is in enterprise software or at least some of your heritage is in enterprise. I have no great love for MSFT but I agree with you about their willingness to support things well past their expected expiration. IIRC they even went so far as to detect programs that used some "bugs" in earlier versions of Windows and emulated those same buggy behaviors just for those programs.
- thatfunkymunki 5y ago
  https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/2hwlrk/new_windows_version_will_be_called_windows_10/ckwq83x/ https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/2hwlrk/new_wind... comes to mind, which explains (at least partially) why Windows 10 came directly after Windows 8.1
  - golergka 5y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2281932 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2281932 Microsoft has a long reputation of fixing bugs caused by other people's software and their incorrect assumptions about Windows.
- flatiron 5y ago
  Too lazy to look but I believe someone in a vm went from windows 1.0 to windows 7 (with all upgrades in between) and some of their personalization options from 1.0 (or maybe 3.11) were still present in 7. Insane!
  - datameta 5y ago

wvenable 5y ago

We have a critical 3rd party business app that absolutely requires IE11 (actually it requires IE11 to be in compatibility mode for IE5 or something). We currently use Internet Explorer only for this app and I think we will welcome the change to IE11 mode in Edge. Luckily it only to last another year or so before we replace this product. Some people don't understand the cost and effort required to replace some of these older but hugely important legacy products.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

lbriner 5y ago

> Here's hoping that this deprecation removes the expectation that things support IE11, however! Always sounds good in theory but when trying to maximise reach, it can be hard to instantly tell a whole bunch of the web, who might be running old PCs, that they can't use your site any more. Also, when you have large corporate customers, you often do not have enough muscle to tell them that unless they upgrade their client browsers, they can no longer use your service. That decision might sound simple but there can be loads of regulatory or accreditation hurdles to overcome to use a new browser and it can affect 1000s of corporate employees.

brnt 5y ago

I wonder if MS will remove Webview and ship Webview2 by default now.