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Fooled by Randomness by Nicholas Taleb is probably the most influential book I have read so far. It completely changed my world view. But at the same time it ma

Fooled by Randomness by Nicholas Taleb is probably the most influential book I have read so far. It completely changed my world view. But at the same time it made life less meaningful. Are there any books to minimize the damage made by the book? Books that give propose and meaning back to life?

sz4kerto 5y ago
Not really. It might sound esoteric (I'd like to avoid that ...) but not many people find meaning in life through rationality. So I'd look elsewhere.
hangonhn 5y ago
Yes! "Against the Gods": https://www.amazon.com/Against-Gods-Remarkable-Story-Risk-ebook/dp/B00BV6RTUG/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=against+the+gods&qid=1621450996&sr=8-1 https://www.amazon.com/Against-Gods-Remarkable-Story-Risk-eb... It's the opposite of Taleb. Basically, if people were rational and used financial instruments properly, a lot of the risks of our lives can be mitigated. The trick isn't so much to control everything but to trade the less desirable forms of risk for the ones you can handle.
- ProjectArcturis 5y ago
  It's definitely a pre-2008 book. There are several sections extolling the slicing and dicing of risk a la colleralized mortgage bonds.
ironmagma 5y ago
Jordan Peterson is obsessed with meaning so his books are filled with discussions on it. Edit: love how I’m getting downvotes for a factual statement
- shannifin 5y ago
  Yes; certainly a politically controversial figure, but "Maps of Meaning" is, obviously, about meaning. Could also try an influence of his, Jung, but he can be a challenge to understand. I'm a bit disappointed that Taleb seems to be unwilling to even talk with figures such as Peterson or Pinker so I could better understand all of their positions, but oh well.
  - Alekanekelo 5y ago
    I agree with you that it would be interesting to see a Taleb-Peterson conversation. Perhaps you might enjoy this podcast with Gad Saad and Taleb: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezhjumayRsg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezhjumayRsg
    - shannifin 5y ago
      Thank you, looks interesting!
- zpeti 5y ago
  I was looking for this answer and found it at the bottom downvoted. I wonder how many people actually know what Peterson says as opposed to what the NYT says about him. To sum it up: do what is at the limit of your competence and what you feel very drawn too (as in very interested in it). That’s where you’ll find a balance of your existing knowledge and pressure to expand your horizons, plus you are following your passion. That gives meaning. It’s certainly worked for me recently. It’s very good advice.
- ska 5y ago
  Suspect the down-votes aren't related to the factualness of the statement, but the perceived value of Peterson as a recommendation for books worth reading in this context (i.e. what GP asked for).
  - ironmagma 5y ago
    It helped me anyways - my tendency is to believe in chaos and treat it as the norm or default state, meaning anything I feel or try to do is simply a blip in white noise data, not amounting to much. Listening to some of his writings refocused me on the human aspect which is that we have a species goal, and typically when we contribute to that, it resonates in our individual minds to create meaning.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- Alekanekelo 5y ago
  Yes, one of the central points of his books ("Maps of Meaning", "12 Rules for Life", and "Beyond Order") is that meaning in life is found by taking on personal responsibility. A good starting point is probably his "12 Rules for Life".
mertd 5y ago
It may be easy to jump to the fatalistic conclusion that we are all clueless lemmings waiting to be wiped out by some random event or another but the book ultimately suggests to not ignore tail events. What you make out of those is up to you. Some of those are disasters for which one should hedge against but some others are opportunities to reap outsize benefits.
yetihehe 5y ago
Have you tried Meditations by Marcus Aurelius? TL;DR - do something for other people, don't whine about your current position, don't whine about stupid people, believe in god(s). If you don't know what to do for other people, start at any local homeless shelter or food service. They always need someone to help. If you don't like my list, read that book yourself.
- fpoling 5y ago
  I used to like stoic writings until I realized that they rarely applied those principles to own life. Meditations is basically a description of painful experiences even when one is a rule of Ancient Rome empire. I would suggest to try to read writing of Epicurus instead. At least he did followed own principles as far as we know.
  - yetihehe 5y ago
    > I used to like stoic writings until I realized that they rarely applied those principles to own life. I may be mistaken, but I think Aurelius complained about this too in meditations.
shannifin 5y ago
Out of curiosity, how did it make life less meaningful to you?
- lunatuna 5y ago
  I have the same question. I didn't get the feeling that life was less meaningful out of it. It has been a long time since I read it, but my basic understanding was that a lot of success is from luck and showed how that works. I remember clearly the math around investment managers being mostly lucky to have returns above the average yet they get a lot of praise and then their luck runs out. But there are still some that stay lucky for a long time. If I was a successful investment manager I might question my success.
  - shannifin 5y ago
    Similar for me. I first learned of Taleb through another short book called "The Survival of Rats in the Slush Pile" which examines ideas from "Fooled by Randomness" as they relate to fiction publishing. (Taleb in turn briefly references this book somewhere in "The Black Swan".) This was actually encouraging for me, because it meant my stories being rejected by publishers did not necessarily mean my writing wasn't good enough; quality is an important variable up to a point, but "luck" also plays a major role. Recognizing that means you can more effectively leverage it.
fpoling 5y ago
Man’s Search for Meaning by Victor Frankl You may also try Memories, Dreams, Reflections by Carl Jung But in general there is no such book as there is no universal meaning. One has to find it oneself.
thatswrong0 5y ago
I couldn't make it past the beginning because it felt uppity, self congratulatory, and pointless compared to something like Thinking Fast and Slow. How did this book change your worldview?
- pacman2 5y ago
  I have not read it. The black swan was interesting. But in the end I may have liked books from Mandelbrot more. I have met professional traders that did not know (and became very angry) when told that far out of the money options are underpriced because it is not a random walk but a fat tail distribution. I have not read Thinking Fast and Slow ether but really disliked "The tipping point" by Malcolm Gladwell. Most impressive book: Thus spoke Zarathustra.
  - TheGallopedHigh 5y ago
    So called fat tailed distributions are a random walk. It’s just that their sample distribution is a power law (no mean hence fat tail). Example of which is a Lévy flight: a random walk with a heavy tail. Here’s a link for your perusal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A9vy_flight https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A9vy_flight
  - cvwright 5y ago
    Mandelbrot was such an entertaining writer. I enjoyed The Misbehavior of Markets a lot. He does tell a few “I’m such a badass” stories a la Taleb, but somehow he’s a much more sympathetic character. When he talks about bullying some bureaucrat into accepting his dissertation, you can’t help but root for him. Like, it’s a pretty bombastic story, but at the same time he’s such an underdog in the story itself. Plus the mathematical modeling stuff was eye opening for me too. Highly recommended. Edit to add: Kahneman’s writing is much closer to Mandelbrot than to Taleb. I think you’d like Thinking Fast and Slow.
niccl 5y ago
Agreed. If you haven't read it, check out Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahnema (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow).
noofen 5y ago
> Books that give propose and meaning back to life? Ride The Tiger by Julius Evola. Unlike most of these suggestions this book will actually give you purpose and meaning in life, but you will be vilified for even mentioning it. That's how you know it's good.
kpwagner 5y ago
Haha! I had a similar reaction when I started reading Taleb. You might checkout Antifragile, which offers a more positive view of randomness. It's easy to get a dire impression from Taleb, but to use his words, "don't read it *too* well." If you really dig into Taleb, specifically Skin in the Game, he is a proponent of risk-taking: his closing statements in Skin in the Game include "Start a business."
itronitron 5y ago
I recommend 'The Hero with a Thousand Faces' by Joseph Campbell as it also deals with pre-history but focuses on mythology and the universality of a story of the hero across cultures.
maCDzP 5y ago
I got the opposite feeling from The Black Swan. Taleb finished the book by pointing out that life on earth is a black swan and very precious. That was meaningful to me.
dnprock 5y ago
For those who are confused by Taleb, I recommend reading some Eastern philosophy. It offers insights for coping with circular and contradictory life. Tao Te Ching, Yi Ching, Buddhist texts.
prionassembly 5y ago
"The Blank Swan" by Élie Ayache.

sz4kerto 5y ago

Not really. It might sound esoteric (I'd like to avoid that ...) but not many people find meaning in life through rationality. So I'd look elsewhere.

hangonhn 5y ago

Yes! "Against the Gods": https://www.amazon.com/Against-Gods-Remarkable-Story-Risk-ebook/dp/B00BV6RTUG/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=against+the+gods&qid=1621450996&sr=8-1 https://www.amazon.com/Against-Gods-Remarkable-Story-Risk-eb... It's the opposite of Taleb. Basically, if people were rational and used financial instruments properly, a lot of the risks of our lives can be mitigated. The trick isn't so much to control everything but to trade the less desirable forms of risk for the ones you can handle.

ProjectArcturis 5y ago
It's definitely a pre-2008 book. There are several sections extolling the slicing and dicing of risk a la colleralized mortgage bonds.

ironmagma 5y ago

Jordan Peterson is obsessed with meaning so his books are filled with discussions on it. Edit: love how I’m getting downvotes for a factual statement

shannifin 5y ago
Yes; certainly a politically controversial figure, but "Maps of Meaning" is, obviously, about meaning. Could also try an influence of his, Jung, but he can be a challenge to understand. I'm a bit disappointed that Taleb seems to be unwilling to even talk with figures such as Peterson or Pinker so I could better understand all of their positions, but oh well.
- Alekanekelo 5y ago
  I agree with you that it would be interesting to see a Taleb-Peterson conversation. Perhaps you might enjoy this podcast with Gad Saad and Taleb: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezhjumayRsg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezhjumayRsg
  - shannifin 5y ago
    Thank you, looks interesting!
zpeti 5y ago
I was looking for this answer and found it at the bottom downvoted. I wonder how many people actually know what Peterson says as opposed to what the NYT says about him. To sum it up: do what is at the limit of your competence and what you feel very drawn too (as in very interested in it). That’s where you’ll find a balance of your existing knowledge and pressure to expand your horizons, plus you are following your passion. That gives meaning. It’s certainly worked for me recently. It’s very good advice.
ska 5y ago
Suspect the down-votes aren't related to the factualness of the statement, but the perceived value of Peterson as a recommendation for books worth reading in this context (i.e. what GP asked for).
- ironmagma 5y ago
  It helped me anyways - my tendency is to believe in chaos and treat it as the norm or default state, meaning anything I feel or try to do is simply a blip in white noise data, not amounting to much. Listening to some of his writings refocused me on the human aspect which is that we have a species goal, and typically when we contribute to that, it resonates in our individual minds to create meaning.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
Alekanekelo 5y ago
Yes, one of the central points of his books ("Maps of Meaning", "12 Rules for Life", and "Beyond Order") is that meaning in life is found by taking on personal responsibility. A good starting point is probably his "12 Rules for Life".

mertd 5y ago

It may be easy to jump to the fatalistic conclusion that we are all clueless lemmings waiting to be wiped out by some random event or another but the book ultimately suggests to not ignore tail events. What you make out of those is up to you. Some of those are disasters for which one should hedge against but some others are opportunities to reap outsize benefits.

yetihehe 5y ago

Have you tried Meditations by Marcus Aurelius? TL;DR - do something for other people, don't whine about your current position, don't whine about stupid people, believe in god(s). If you don't know what to do for other people, start at any local homeless shelter or food service. They always need someone to help. If you don't like my list, read that book yourself.

fpoling 5y ago
I used to like stoic writings until I realized that they rarely applied those principles to own life. Meditations is basically a description of painful experiences even when one is a rule of Ancient Rome empire. I would suggest to try to read writing of Epicurus instead. At least he did followed own principles as far as we know.
- yetihehe 5y ago
  > I used to like stoic writings until I realized that they rarely applied those principles to own life. I may be mistaken, but I think Aurelius complained about this too in meditations.

shannifin 5y ago

Out of curiosity, how did it make life less meaningful to you?

lunatuna 5y ago
I have the same question. I didn't get the feeling that life was less meaningful out of it. It has been a long time since I read it, but my basic understanding was that a lot of success is from luck and showed how that works. I remember clearly the math around investment managers being mostly lucky to have returns above the average yet they get a lot of praise and then their luck runs out. But there are still some that stay lucky for a long time. If I was a successful investment manager I might question my success.
- shannifin 5y ago
  Similar for me. I first learned of Taleb through another short book called "The Survival of Rats in the Slush Pile" which examines ideas from "Fooled by Randomness" as they relate to fiction publishing. (Taleb in turn briefly references this book somewhere in "The Black Swan".) This was actually encouraging for me, because it meant my stories being rejected by publishers did not necessarily mean my writing wasn't good enough; quality is an important variable up to a point, but "luck" also plays a major role. Recognizing that means you can more effectively leverage it.

fpoling 5y ago

Man’s Search for Meaning by Victor Frankl You may also try Memories, Dreams, Reflections by Carl Jung But in general there is no such book as there is no universal meaning. One has to find it oneself.

thatswrong0 5y ago

I couldn't make it past the beginning because it felt uppity, self congratulatory, and pointless compared to something like Thinking Fast and Slow. How did this book change your worldview?

pacman2 5y ago
I have not read it. The black swan was interesting. But in the end I may have liked books from Mandelbrot more. I have met professional traders that did not know (and became very angry) when told that far out of the money options are underpriced because it is not a random walk but a fat tail distribution. I have not read Thinking Fast and Slow ether but really disliked "The tipping point" by Malcolm Gladwell. Most impressive book: Thus spoke Zarathustra.
- TheGallopedHigh 5y ago
  So called fat tailed distributions are a random walk. It’s just that their sample distribution is a power law (no mean hence fat tail). Example of which is a Lévy flight: a random walk with a heavy tail. Here’s a link for your perusal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A9vy_flight https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A9vy_flight
- cvwright 5y ago
  Mandelbrot was such an entertaining writer. I enjoyed The Misbehavior of Markets a lot. He does tell a few “I’m such a badass” stories a la Taleb, but somehow he’s a much more sympathetic character. When he talks about bullying some bureaucrat into accepting his dissertation, you can’t help but root for him. Like, it’s a pretty bombastic story, but at the same time he’s such an underdog in the story itself. Plus the mathematical modeling stuff was eye opening for me too. Highly recommended. Edit to add: Kahneman’s writing is much closer to Mandelbrot than to Taleb. I think you’d like Thinking Fast and Slow.

niccl 5y ago

Agreed. If you haven't read it, check out Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahnema (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow).

noofen 5y ago

> Books that give propose and meaning back to life? Ride The Tiger by Julius Evola. Unlike most of these suggestions this book will actually give you purpose and meaning in life, but you will be vilified for even mentioning it. That's how you know it's good.

kpwagner 5y ago

Haha! I had a similar reaction when I started reading Taleb. You might checkout Antifragile, which offers a more positive view of randomness. It's easy to get a dire impression from Taleb, but to use his words, "don't read it *too* well." If you really dig into Taleb, specifically Skin in the Game, he is a proponent of risk-taking: his closing statements in Skin in the Game include "Start a business."

itronitron 5y ago

I recommend 'The Hero with a Thousand Faces' by Joseph Campbell as it also deals with pre-history but focuses on mythology and the universality of a story of the hero across cultures.

maCDzP 5y ago

I got the opposite feeling from The Black Swan. Taleb finished the book by pointing out that life on earth is a black swan and very precious. That was meaningful to me.

dnprock 5y ago

For those who are confused by Taleb, I recommend reading some Eastern philosophy. It offers insights for coping with circular and contradictory life. Tao Te Ching, Yi Ching, Buddhist texts.

prionassembly 5y ago

"The Blank Swan" by Élie Ayache.