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Energy used for PoW per transaction is a dumb metric. Satoshi actually made the most efficient decentralized money that can ever exist and prevented more exter

Energy used for PoW per transaction is a dumb metric. Satoshi actually made the most efficient decentralized money that can ever exist and prevented more externalities in the world than potentially any human ever will.

bb88 5y ago
> Energy used for PoW per transaction is a dumb metric. Cars monitor energy use through MPG. Datacenters monitor it as well. Why should crypto currencies get a pass? > Satoshi actually made the most efficient decentralized money that can ever exist and prevented more externalities in the world than potentially any human ever will. [CITATION NEEDED]
- keymone 5y ago
  > Cars monitor energy use through MPG. Datacenters monitor it as well. Why should crypto currencies get a pass? cars spend energy to move. datacenters spend energy to compute things. bitcoin mining doesn't spend energy to process achieve some TPS, it spends energy to achieve certain level of security, so it's security per energy spent that matters, not energy per transaction. if transactions or number of them are not an input to a bitcoin miner -- if miner will spand the same energy whether it's for 1 or 1 trillion transactions -- then energy per transaction metric is zero signal. > [CITATION NEEDED] no, actually, it's an opinion. current financial system and fiat money cause immense externalities: war, corruption, hunger, crime, etc. bitcoin is an incarnation of money where security is expressed in form of energy spent - you no longer need to involve politics or any other human activities to achieve security and so a large incentive for those simply disappears. bitcoin doesn't solve those externalities, but that specific aspect of money is simply no longer contributing.
  - bb88 5y ago
    > if miner will spand the same energy whether it's for 1 or 1 trillion transactions -- then energy per transaction metric is zero signal. So? A running car consumes gas even when it's idle. My parents used to measure MPG at every tank refill, which was a combination of miles, idle, braking, etc. We can certainly take an average of transactions to get a reasonable number for watts/transaction. > no, actually, it's an opinion. ... which was stated as fact.
    - keymone 5y ago
      > A running car consumes gas even when it's idle. Bad extrapolation of analogy, but still - how convenient that you decided to focus on the lower bound. How about the high bound? Can a car go trillions of miles per gallon? Because Bitcoin block can contain trillions of transactions every 10 minutes. > We can certainly take an average of transactions to get a reasonable number for watts/transaction. You can, it’s just not useful.
      - bb88 5y ago
        > You can, it’s just not useful. Yes, yes it is. Stating an opinion as if it's fact, again?

bb88 5y ago

> Energy used for PoW per transaction is a dumb metric. Cars monitor energy use through MPG. Datacenters monitor it as well. Why should crypto currencies get a pass? > Satoshi actually made the most efficient decentralized money that can ever exist and prevented more externalities in the world than potentially any human ever will. [CITATION NEEDED]

keymone 5y ago
> Cars monitor energy use through MPG. Datacenters monitor it as well. Why should crypto currencies get a pass? cars spend energy to move. datacenters spend energy to compute things. bitcoin mining doesn't spend energy to process achieve some TPS, it spends energy to achieve certain level of security, so it's security per energy spent that matters, not energy per transaction. if transactions or number of them are not an input to a bitcoin miner -- if miner will spand the same energy whether it's for 1 or 1 trillion transactions -- then energy per transaction metric is zero signal. > [CITATION NEEDED] no, actually, it's an opinion. current financial system and fiat money cause immense externalities: war, corruption, hunger, crime, etc. bitcoin is an incarnation of money where security is expressed in form of energy spent - you no longer need to involve politics or any other human activities to achieve security and so a large incentive for those simply disappears. bitcoin doesn't solve those externalities, but that specific aspect of money is simply no longer contributing.
- bb88 5y ago
  > if miner will spand the same energy whether it's for 1 or 1 trillion transactions -- then energy per transaction metric is zero signal. So? A running car consumes gas even when it's idle. My parents used to measure MPG at every tank refill, which was a combination of miles, idle, braking, etc. We can certainly take an average of transactions to get a reasonable number for watts/transaction. > no, actually, it's an opinion. ... which was stated as fact.
  - keymone 5y ago
    > A running car consumes gas even when it's idle. Bad extrapolation of analogy, but still - how convenient that you decided to focus on the lower bound. How about the high bound? Can a car go trillions of miles per gallon? Because Bitcoin block can contain trillions of transactions every 10 minutes. > We can certainly take an average of transactions to get a reasonable number for watts/transaction. You can, it’s just not useful.
    - bb88 5y ago
      > You can, it’s just not useful. Yes, yes it is. Stating an opinion as if it's fact, again?