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> they are clearly gamifying trading. > If you want to make the claim RH isn't gamifying trading and therefore the criticisms are off base, please, I invite you

> they are clearly gamifying trading. > If you want to make the claim RH isn't gamifying trading and therefore the criticisms are off base, please, I invite you to do so. I have used RobinHood just a little bit, and it's not my main brokerage. However, I take issue with your phrasing. You start with the premise that whatever it is that RobinHood is doing is bad, it's impossible to argue against this where you are standing. I hate the app that my main brokerage provides, but it was even worse before RobinHood existed. When I bought my first set of shares on RH, I was amazed by easy it was, and how well designed the UI was. IIRC, it is also super easy to find information on the stock that you're trading, so it's not like they are making the UI dumb. I have read criticisms like how they make buying a stock seem inconsequential, but that's frankly pretty absurd to me. Do they need to make their UI flow less smooth, or give some big warning that people are dealing with real money? If there are any parts of their app which encourages gambling, I agree it should be removed, but the actual criticisms I read are things like "they use bright flashy lights like slot machines" which seems very unconvincing.

CarelessExpert 5y ago
> If there are any parts of their app which encourages gambling, I agree it should be removed, but the actual criticisms I read are things like "they use bright flashy lights like slot machines" which seems very unconvincing. That's quite literally what gamifying is: providing the kind of visual rewards/stimulus, combined with an extremely low friction experience, that's specifically designed to work in concert to encourage engagement. In the case of a slot machine, that means putting coins in the machine and pulling the lever. In the case of Robinhood, that means executing trades. Maybe you don't believe those features of Robinhood actually encourage trading, but frankly, the psychology around RH's design is pretty well understood both in the technology industry and the gambling industry. Hell, there's an entire booked (Hooked!) written about it. > Do they need to make their UI flow less smooth, or give some big warning that people are dealing with real money? Yes. Absolutely. Why would that be a problem? Ostensibly RH's mission is to provide people with free access to the markets to "regular folks" (read: inexperienced traders). That's not the same thing as encouraging day trading. I don't see why features that discourage excessive trading (which is unquestionably an anti-pattern for a typical retail trader, and therefore is not in the best interest of the folks RH is supposedly trying to empower) would be a bad thing... ... except, of course, RH's revenue is specifically derived from high trading volume, so it's not in their financial interest.
- stickfigure 5y ago
  >> Do they need to make their UI flow less smooth, or give some big warning that people are dealing with real money? >Yes. Absolutely. Why would that be a problem? Are you proposing that this warning can't be disabled or permanently dismissed? As an adult consumer I do NOT want this.
  - CarelessExpert 5y ago
    Why not? Are you trading so often that a bit of additional friction is an issue? If so, a) you should reconsider, that's generally a good way to lose money, and b) you're probably classified as a pattern day trader, anyway, and you're already subject to a (very mild) speedbump: https://robinhood.com/us/en/support/articles/pattern-day-trade-protection/ https://robinhood.com/us/en/support/articles/pattern-day-tra... > Pattern Day Trade Protection alerts you when you’ve placed three day trades and you’re about to place your fourth. You’ll have the option to proceed with your trade, or cancel it to avoid being marked as a pattern day trader. Also, note even if you turn that alert off, you get another mild warning: > Even if you turn off Pattern Day Trade Protection, we’ll still let you know when you’ve placed your second and third day trades in the five-day window. On your third day trade in the five-day window, we’ll remind you that you’ll be marked as a pattern day trader if you place one more day trade within the five days of your first day trade.
    - google2142 5y ago
      You're truly live up to your username lol "you should reconsider, that's generally a good way to lose money" Some people make money off of doing this, you have no right to prevent people from day trading if that's what they want to do. " you're probably classified as a pattern day trader, anyway, and you're already subject to a (very mild) speedbump:" This only applies if you have less than $25k in assets which most HN users probably have in excess of. It seems like you clearly have a bias against robinhood without knowing the full reasons for why it's succeeded and how it's changed the brokerage industry for the better.
      - deleted 5y ago
rurp 5y ago
> it is also super easy to find information on the stock that you're trading, so it's not like they are making the UI dumb. I don't agree with this. It's been a while since I used RH so maybe the current UI is different, but when I used it the stock price charts literally had no numbers on them. It was just a vague line that went up and down. The options UI was also similarly dumbed down. It gave very light descriptions of different kinds of trades when purchasing, but very little concrete information about prices or risks. Plus the functionality was awful, you couldn't even sell options you held, outside of sending RH an email. Stock and option flows are clearly designed towards appealing to users who know very little about investing.

CarelessExpert 5y ago

> If there are any parts of their app which encourages gambling, I agree it should be removed, but the actual criticisms I read are things like "they use bright flashy lights like slot machines" which seems very unconvincing. That's quite literally what gamifying is: providing the kind of visual rewards/stimulus, combined with an extremely low friction experience, that's specifically designed to work in concert to encourage engagement. In the case of a slot machine, that means putting coins in the machine and pulling the lever. In the case of Robinhood, that means executing trades. Maybe you don't believe those features of Robinhood actually encourage trading, but frankly, the psychology around RH's design is pretty well understood both in the technology industry and the gambling industry. Hell, there's an entire booked (Hooked!) written about it. > Do they need to make their UI flow less smooth, or give some big warning that people are dealing with real money? Yes. Absolutely. Why would that be a problem? Ostensibly RH's mission is to provide people with free access to the markets to "regular folks" (read: inexperienced traders). That's not the same thing as encouraging day trading. I don't see why features that discourage excessive trading (which is unquestionably an anti-pattern for a typical retail trader, and therefore is not in the best interest of the folks RH is supposedly trying to empower) would be a bad thing... ... except, of course, RH's revenue is specifically derived from high trading volume, so it's not in their financial interest.

stickfigure 5y ago
>> Do they need to make their UI flow less smooth, or give some big warning that people are dealing with real money? >Yes. Absolutely. Why would that be a problem? Are you proposing that this warning can't be disabled or permanently dismissed? As an adult consumer I do NOT want this.
- CarelessExpert 5y ago
  Why not? Are you trading so often that a bit of additional friction is an issue? If so, a) you should reconsider, that's generally a good way to lose money, and b) you're probably classified as a pattern day trader, anyway, and you're already subject to a (very mild) speedbump: https://robinhood.com/us/en/support/articles/pattern-day-trade-protection/ https://robinhood.com/us/en/support/articles/pattern-day-tra... > Pattern Day Trade Protection alerts you when you’ve placed three day trades and you’re about to place your fourth. You’ll have the option to proceed with your trade, or cancel it to avoid being marked as a pattern day trader. Also, note even if you turn that alert off, you get another mild warning: > Even if you turn off Pattern Day Trade Protection, we’ll still let you know when you’ve placed your second and third day trades in the five-day window. On your third day trade in the five-day window, we’ll remind you that you’ll be marked as a pattern day trader if you place one more day trade within the five days of your first day trade.
  - google2142 5y ago
    You're truly live up to your username lol "you should reconsider, that's generally a good way to lose money" Some people make money off of doing this, you have no right to prevent people from day trading if that's what they want to do. " you're probably classified as a pattern day trader, anyway, and you're already subject to a (very mild) speedbump:" This only applies if you have less than $25k in assets which most HN users probably have in excess of. It seems like you clearly have a bias against robinhood without knowing the full reasons for why it's succeeded and how it's changed the brokerage industry for the better.
    - deleted 5y ago

rurp 5y ago

> it is also super easy to find information on the stock that you're trading, so it's not like they are making the UI dumb. I don't agree with this. It's been a while since I used RH so maybe the current UI is different, but when I used it the stock price charts literally had no numbers on them. It was just a vague line that went up and down. The options UI was also similarly dumbed down. It gave very light descriptions of different kinds of trades when purchasing, but very little concrete information about prices or risks. Plus the functionality was awful, you couldn't even sell options you held, outside of sending RH an email. Stock and option flows are clearly designed towards appealing to users who know very little about investing.