3 ms·

The thing about singular they is that it only really became "perfectly good usage for longer than people think" within the last few years, well after the heyday

by makomk 5y ago

The thing about singular they is that it only really became "perfectly good usage for longer than people think" within the last few years, well after the heyday of Usenet. I don't think it was even a major contender for the English language gender-neutral singular pronoun before then.

chimeracoder 5y ago
> The thing about singular they is that it only really became "perfectly good usage for longer than people think" within the last few years, well after the heyday of Usenet. The singular "they" has been prescribed in manuals of style since the 1700s[0], continuously through the 20th century. That certainly predates the heyday of Usenet. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/He_(pronoun)#Gender https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/He_(pronoun)#Gender
M2Ys4U 5y ago
TIL Usenet was in use in the 14th century. What newsgroups did Chaucer post to?
- herewulf 5y ago
  Are you trying to claim that Chaucer used "they" as a gender neutral singular pronoun? That is extremely dubious considering that half of the Middle English speakers were still using <he> as the third person plural pronoun[1] (descended from Old English <híe> and unrelated to the third person masculine pronoun). Chaucer himself alternates between native Old English and Anglo-Norse forms depending on grammatical case and/or whim[2]. [1]: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/he#Middle_English-they https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/he#Middle_English-they [2]: https://sites.fas.harvard.edu/~chaucer/pronunciation/gr.html#personal%20pronouns https://sites.fas.harvard.edu/~chaucer/pronunciation/gr.html...
Doctor_Fegg 5y ago
That isn't at all true. It was absolutely standard (British) English when I was growing up in the '80s.
- wahern 5y ago
  Epicene they has been common all along. That's why curmudgeonly grammarians could never shut up about it--because it was so common. The recent innovation is the use of singular they in situations where gender would normally be assumed. For example, "Jane went to the restroom to comb their hair." Until recently that was jarring for most people--some more than others--even when they weren't invested in the culture wars.

by makomk 5y ago

chimeracoder 5y ago

> The thing about singular they is that it only really became "perfectly good usage for longer than people think" within the last few years, well after the heyday of Usenet. The singular "they" has been prescribed in manuals of style since the 1700s[0], continuously through the 20th century. That certainly predates the heyday of Usenet. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/He_(pronoun)#Gender https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/He_(pronoun)#Gender

M2Ys4U 5y ago

TIL Usenet was in use in the 14th century. What newsgroups did Chaucer post to?

herewulf 5y ago
Are you trying to claim that Chaucer used "they" as a gender neutral singular pronoun? That is extremely dubious considering that half of the Middle English speakers were still using <he> as the third person plural pronoun[1] (descended from Old English <híe> and unrelated to the third person masculine pronoun). Chaucer himself alternates between native Old English and Anglo-Norse forms depending on grammatical case and/or whim[2]. [1]: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/he#Middle_English-they https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/he#Middle_English-they [2]: https://sites.fas.harvard.edu/~chaucer/pronunciation/gr.html#personal%20pronouns https://sites.fas.harvard.edu/~chaucer/pronunciation/gr.html...

Doctor_Fegg 5y ago

That isn't at all true. It was absolutely standard (British) English when I was growing up in the '80s.

wahern 5y ago
Epicene they has been common all along. That's why curmudgeonly grammarians could never shut up about it--because it was so common. The recent innovation is the use of singular they in situations where gender would normally be assumed. For example, "Jane went to the restroom to comb their hair." Until recently that was jarring for most people--some more than others--even when they weren't invested in the culture wars.