6 ms·

Plant fat sources like peanuts, avocados, olive oil, etc. have a lot of fat, and this includes a lot of saturated fat. In the idea that it exists in lower porti

by AlanSE 5y ago

Plant fat sources like peanuts, avocados, olive oil, etc. have a lot of fat, and this includes a lot of saturated fat. In the idea that it exists in lower portion? Is the problem really saturated fat itself, or the type of saturated fat... meaning, is the category of saturated fat just too broad to intelligently discuss it with these categories?

reedjosh 5y ago
I see no problem with the fats you've mentioned, and I also think animals fats are fine as well. People used to cook with lard and tallow. McDonalds fries were originally cooked in tallow. People didn't die of obesity related diseases in the sixties and seventies like they do today, and we've only moved further from these healthy fats.
- kwhitefoot 5y ago
  > People didn't die of obesity related diseases in the sixties and seventies like they do today, They also didn't eat huge portions or drink quite such vast quantities of sugary drinks.
  - AlanSE 5y ago
    I'm completely sold on the sugar argument. It's a home-run. Sugar is the new smoking. Our food environment makes it difficult to minimize sugar, but it's an extremely straightforward rule, and you will join an rapidly increasing number of people who are on the crusade. I asked the question about fat, because I accept that chronic disease in developed nations does have other components. Exercise is similar to sugar, in that it's quite difficult to work into our lives, but it's a simple and obviously worthwhile rule. With fat, on the other hand, it feels like people are all over the place. Nonetheless, there are bad fats. I don't know what "bad fats" are scientifically, but I'm pretty sure potato chips have them.
    - kwhitefoot 5y ago
      The US has a worse version of this problem than most other western countries. When I used to visit the US on business I found it quite difficult to buy food in the supermarkets because the list of ingredients on even the simplest items had items that I had never heard of or that I could not understand the need for. The other thing that bothered me was that quantity in many restaurants similar places seemed to be regarded as more important than quality. I went into a grocery store once while out riding a bicycle to get some water. I picked a bottle that seemed to be water but which turned out to be sickly sweet even though it had no sugar. Don't get me wrong, some of the best food I have ever eaten was in US restaurants. I think the only solution is to bring up children without junk food. But I have no idea how that can be achieved. I had my family with me once and we visited a colleague's house for Thanksgiving dinner. Our host's wife was rather taken aback when my three children asked for water instead of soda, and all three of them found the food far too sweet. Mind you things are changing here too, when we moved here over thirty years ago one never saw a seriously overweight person. Now it is moderately common.
metalliqaz 5y ago
natural fats generally aren't a problem unless they are eaten to the point of being way too many calories. that's hard to do when eating whole foods, because of all the other stuff that it comes with.
- reedjosh 5y ago
  And the satiating nature of fat.
adrian_b 5y ago
"Plant fat sources" is too vague to be useful, because they are partitioned in several classes with very different fat composition: 1. A few "Plant fat sources" consist mostly of saturated fat, e.g. cocoa butter 2. Some "Plant fat sources" have a fatty acid content consisting mostly of oleic acid (mono-unsaturated), e.g. olive oil, cashew nuts, almonds, hazelnuts, pistachio 3. Some "Plant fat sources" have a fatty acid content consisting mostly of linoleic acid (poly-unsaturated), e.g. sunflower oil and most other cheap vegetable oils, many seeds 4. A few "Plant fat sources" have a fatty acid content consisting also mostly of poly-unsaturated fatty acids, but with a large proportion of alpha-linolenic acid, e.g. walnuts, flaxseed and a few others. The rules for a healthy diet are simple: 1. Most of the fatty food eaten should belong to the second class from above, i.e. plant fat sources with mostly oleic acid The reason is that this corresponds to the normal composition of the human body fat, so it can be used with maximum efficiency as an energy source or for cellular membranes, without requiring expensive transformations in the liver. 2. Any fat sources from the other classes may be eaten, but in smaller quantities. 3. The vegetable fat sources must be supplemented every day with a small quantity of fat containing long-chain omega-3 fatty acids (DHA & EPA). The cheapest and most convenient way is to use cod liver oil or another kind of fish oil. Rich vegans can pay 7 or 8 times more for a similar oil extracted from certain algae (algae is the commercially used word; it is not the most appropriate but there exist no more appropriate non-scientific names for those uni-cellular organisms). 4. Heating fatty food should be avoided, because, unlike with proteins or carbohydrates, heating does not have any useful effect but it only degrades the fat, especially the non-saturated fats. Best would be to not add any kind of vegetable oil while cooking but to mix oil with the food only after cooking and cooling. Fat that is heated should be of the saturated kind, e.g. butter or lard.

by AlanSE 5y ago

reedjosh 5y ago

I see no problem with the fats you've mentioned, and I also think animals fats are fine as well. People used to cook with lard and tallow. McDonalds fries were originally cooked in tallow. People didn't die of obesity related diseases in the sixties and seventies like they do today, and we've only moved further from these healthy fats.

kwhitefoot 5y ago
> People didn't die of obesity related diseases in the sixties and seventies like they do today, They also didn't eat huge portions or drink quite such vast quantities of sugary drinks.
- AlanSE 5y ago
  I'm completely sold on the sugar argument. It's a home-run. Sugar is the new smoking. Our food environment makes it difficult to minimize sugar, but it's an extremely straightforward rule, and you will join an rapidly increasing number of people who are on the crusade. I asked the question about fat, because I accept that chronic disease in developed nations does have other components. Exercise is similar to sugar, in that it's quite difficult to work into our lives, but it's a simple and obviously worthwhile rule. With fat, on the other hand, it feels like people are all over the place. Nonetheless, there are bad fats. I don't know what "bad fats" are scientifically, but I'm pretty sure potato chips have them.
  - kwhitefoot 5y ago
    The US has a worse version of this problem than most other western countries. When I used to visit the US on business I found it quite difficult to buy food in the supermarkets because the list of ingredients on even the simplest items had items that I had never heard of or that I could not understand the need for. The other thing that bothered me was that quantity in many restaurants similar places seemed to be regarded as more important than quality. I went into a grocery store once while out riding a bicycle to get some water. I picked a bottle that seemed to be water but which turned out to be sickly sweet even though it had no sugar. Don't get me wrong, some of the best food I have ever eaten was in US restaurants. I think the only solution is to bring up children without junk food. But I have no idea how that can be achieved. I had my family with me once and we visited a colleague's house for Thanksgiving dinner. Our host's wife was rather taken aback when my three children asked for water instead of soda, and all three of them found the food far too sweet. Mind you things are changing here too, when we moved here over thirty years ago one never saw a seriously overweight person. Now it is moderately common.

metalliqaz 5y ago

natural fats generally aren't a problem unless they are eaten to the point of being way too many calories. that's hard to do when eating whole foods, because of all the other stuff that it comes with.

reedjosh 5y ago
And the satiating nature of fat.

adrian_b 5y ago

"Plant fat sources" is too vague to be useful, because they are partitioned in several classes with very different fat composition: 1. A few "Plant fat sources" consist mostly of saturated fat, e.g. cocoa butter 2. Some "Plant fat sources" have a fatty acid content consisting mostly of oleic acid (mono-unsaturated), e.g. olive oil, cashew nuts, almonds, hazelnuts, pistachio 3. Some "Plant fat sources" have a fatty acid content consisting mostly of linoleic acid (poly-unsaturated), e.g. sunflower oil and most other cheap vegetable oils, many seeds 4. A few "Plant fat sources" have a fatty acid content consisting also mostly of poly-unsaturated fatty acids, but with a large proportion of alpha-linolenic acid, e.g. walnuts, flaxseed and a few others. The rules for a healthy diet are simple: 1. Most of the fatty food eaten should belong to the second class from above, i.e. plant fat sources with mostly oleic acid The reason is that this corresponds to the normal composition of the human body fat, so it can be used with maximum efficiency as an energy source or for cellular membranes, without requiring expensive transformations in the liver. 2. Any fat sources from the other classes may be eaten, but in smaller quantities. 3. The vegetable fat sources must be supplemented every day with a small quantity of fat containing long-chain omega-3 fatty acids (DHA & EPA). The cheapest and most convenient way is to use cod liver oil or another kind of fish oil. Rich vegans can pay 7 or 8 times more for a similar oil extracted from certain algae (algae is the commercially used word; it is not the most appropriate but there exist no more appropriate non-scientific names for those uni-cellular organisms). 4. Heating fatty food should be avoided, because, unlike with proteins or carbohydrates, heating does not have any useful effect but it only degrades the fat, especially the non-saturated fats. Best would be to not add any kind of vegetable oil while cooking but to mix oil with the food only after cooking and cooling. Fat that is heated should be of the saturated kind, e.g. butter or lard.