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If you’re going to switch a bunch of servers anyway, why not start over by partnering with someone like Matrix.org? Dead simple to create an IRC<->matrix bridge

If you’re going to switch a bunch of servers anyway, why not start over by partnering with someone like Matrix.org? Dead simple to create an IRC<->matrix bridge for people who just love the old protocol, and decentralization efforts always have strength in numbers.

metroholografix 5y ago
A lot of people find Matrix completely unpalatable. Why would they support it in this way? IRC works and has worked for decades. Its minimal, text-only, no bs, no distractions nature is its greatest asset. Client support, programmability, and ease of integration too. The folks that like Matrix are already using it. The folks that have stuck with IRC for decades will not abandon it for a protocol they deem to be inferior.
- natural219 5y ago
  Trust me, I get that; the main argument is that, in protocol wars, there's strength in numbers; IRC is a waning protocol, Matrix is a waxing protocol. I'm not saying people must change what's working for them already; my only case is that _if_ what _was_ working for you is now broken (the freenode network), you have a new opportunity to re-evaluate your position. That's all. You don't even have to go "all in" on all the fancy new Matrix stuff; just write a wrapper to comply with being a "homeserver", and continue using the IRC API with no changes. If not, that's also fine, I'm not that invested in this personally.
- anticensor 5y ago
  The opposition might be due to the fact that Matrix is persistent, IRC is ephemeral.
tristan957 5y ago
The Matrix-IRC bridge is absolutely horrible and leads to terrible experiences for Matrix users and IRC users.
- natural219 5y ago
  Ahh, I haven’t used it before. Appreciate the feedback, probably makes Matrix a less attractive option for this case then.
  - nullc 5y ago
    For example, if your lines on the matrix side are long it converts them into urls. So people on IRC end up seeing you talking with 1/4 of your messages just being urls to some random server's pastebin. When the matrix gateways go up and down you'll have 1000 random users thunderously join and part the channel at once. Matrix comment edits flood the channels. Matrix is unhelpful with abuse reports, in my experience. I generally ban matrix from IRC channels for these and other such nuisances.
    - Arathorn 5y ago
      fwiw we've just added stuff to the IRC bridge to let the pastebin, edit & reply behaviour be configurable on a per-room basis so that if folks have strong opinions they can enforce them. In terms of abuse reports; Element hires a fulltime team of folks to man abuse@matrix.org on behalf of the Matrix.org Foundation and chase down the tickets as they come in. Please ping abuse@matrix.org if we've dropped stuff.
      - Freso 5y ago
        As someone managing a number of IRC rooms, how do we configure this? (I don’t use Matrix.)
        Arathorn 5y ago
        First it needs to be merged & deployed. Then it'd have to be configured from the Matrix side as a one-off (a bit like configuring ChanServ stuff is a one-off on IRC). You'd log in on Matrix, give the Matrix user ops from IRC, and then twiddle the settings (for which there isn't a UI yet, but will get added soon). Also, we'll be setting the defaults to be pretty conservative based on the preferences of the target IRC network admins (potentially disabling pastebins & edits & replies entirely, to minimise impedance mismatch between Matrix & IRC), so the chances are you wouldn't need to configure anything.

metroholografix 5y ago

A lot of people find Matrix completely unpalatable. Why would they support it in this way? IRC works and has worked for decades. Its minimal, text-only, no bs, no distractions nature is its greatest asset. Client support, programmability, and ease of integration too. The folks that like Matrix are already using it. The folks that have stuck with IRC for decades will not abandon it for a protocol they deem to be inferior.

natural219 5y ago
Trust me, I get that; the main argument is that, in protocol wars, there's strength in numbers; IRC is a waning protocol, Matrix is a waxing protocol. I'm not saying people must change what's working for them already; my only case is that _if_ what _was_ working for you is now broken (the freenode network), you have a new opportunity to re-evaluate your position. That's all. You don't even have to go "all in" on all the fancy new Matrix stuff; just write a wrapper to comply with being a "homeserver", and continue using the IRC API with no changes. If not, that's also fine, I'm not that invested in this personally.
anticensor 5y ago
The opposition might be due to the fact that Matrix is persistent, IRC is ephemeral.

tristan957 5y ago

The Matrix-IRC bridge is absolutely horrible and leads to terrible experiences for Matrix users and IRC users.

natural219 5y ago
Ahh, I haven’t used it before. Appreciate the feedback, probably makes Matrix a less attractive option for this case then.
- nullc 5y ago
  For example, if your lines on the matrix side are long it converts them into urls. So people on IRC end up seeing you talking with 1/4 of your messages just being urls to some random server's pastebin. When the matrix gateways go up and down you'll have 1000 random users thunderously join and part the channel at once. Matrix comment edits flood the channels. Matrix is unhelpful with abuse reports, in my experience. I generally ban matrix from IRC channels for these and other such nuisances.
  - Arathorn 5y ago
    fwiw we've just added stuff to the IRC bridge to let the pastebin, edit & reply behaviour be configurable on a per-room basis so that if folks have strong opinions they can enforce them. In terms of abuse reports; Element hires a fulltime team of folks to man abuse@matrix.org on behalf of the Matrix.org Foundation and chase down the tickets as they come in. Please ping abuse@matrix.org if we've dropped stuff.
    - Freso 5y ago
      As someone managing a number of IRC rooms, how do we configure this? (I don’t use Matrix.)
      - Arathorn 5y ago
        First it needs to be merged & deployed. Then it'd have to be configured from the Matrix side as a one-off (a bit like configuring ChanServ stuff is a one-off on IRC). You'd log in on Matrix, give the Matrix user ops from IRC, and then twiddle the settings (for which there isn't a UI yet, but will get added soon). Also, we'll be setting the defaults to be pretty conservative based on the preferences of the target IRC network admins (potentially disabling pastebins & edits & replies entirely, to minimise impedance mismatch between Matrix & IRC), so the chances are you wouldn't need to configure anything.