5 ms·

Same. I hate the arrogant stupidity of the crypto cult.

kjakm 5y ago
As someone with no real opinion on crypto the arrogant stupidity of the anti-crypto crowd (really prevalent on HN) is also quite tiring.
- halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
  For me, it's because the hype isn't around the technology (which is the interesting part and for the most part, why we're on HN), it's around the speculation. From the outside, looks like a bunch of gamblers constantly getting each other off on whether their bets will make them millionares. It's just...sad...at a level.
  - kjakm 5y ago
    A fair opinion to have. I feel every HN thread on crypto now though dissolves to negativity (without any substance) + toxicity really quickly.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
      It is hard not to be negative about something with such a huge environmental impact that doesn't seem to do anything but let gamblers gamble.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - tippytippytango 5y ago
    If crypto dies you will have to find a new group of people to feel superior to to feed your ego.
    - argvargc 5y ago
      And so, it seems, will you.
    - halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
      So feeling pity for the bag holders because they're gambling in a highly speculative market, of which most have no idea what they're buying, is now egotistical. Gotcha.
    - robjan 5y ago
      A very common saying in the crypto world to "no coiners" is "have fun being poor". They are eating their words.
  - argvargc 5y ago
    Yes. And I'd add the "hype" around speculation works both ways, coming from mainly from two camps: - those who care only about making money - those who care only about seeing crypto fail OTOH, the excitement and bustling activity around the actual technology is largely ignored by the mainstream media, and seems also conspicuously-absent here. Many are not aware such a vibrant developmental ecosystem - with altruistic and exploratory goals far removed from a demented push to "make money" - even exists.
    - stephc_int13 5y ago
      I've tried to follow the scene, but I still don't understand the value behind the tech. In my opinion, states and currencies are almost the same thing. As an ex-anarchist I think that it is unreasonable to completely remove centralized states or currencies. Because the alternative is worse. People might have altruistic intentions, it does not matter.
  - 52-6F-62 5y ago
    I agree. But also try taking a step back: why are they gambling? Sure, greed is ever-present in human history—that's a given. But also listen to the doubt in the present establishment. I know what it's like to be poor and what the banks do to you in that state. It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that there's so much being thrown at it. The chances of and potential returns are almost guaranteed better than a savings account. That's a problem, isn't it?
    - halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
      Almost guaranteed? If one put all that money into S&P indexes instead of coin, they'd be up 20% versus betting on crazy coin returns. Most people aren't equipped to handle the volatility of the coin market and most people don't understand that you don't actually lose until you realize losses. Therein creates almost more guaranteed stress than actually making money, as we're seeing now with all the bag holders from the past couple months getting destroyed.
      - 52-6F-62 5y ago
        Traditionally, poor people did not have the means or access to invest money in an index like S&P. Most people also aren't equipped to see their savings reduce in real value every month. This is a global phenomenon, not one isolated to first-world subdivisions. You seem to be mistaking my seeking the reason why people might do what appears [to you and many others] to be such a wildly irrational thing to do. I'm arguing it's not irrational in their case, but one of the most rational things one can do as someone without much means when faced with the ready alternatives. It becomes no surprise.
intotheabyss 5y ago
I hate the arrogant stupidity of people that dismiss crypto as a cult.
zepto 5y ago
It may be arrogant sounding, but it’s not stupid. It is in the financial interest of Bitcoin holders to talk up Bitcoin and defend it to the death. The senior management of regular banks in many countries are often required by law to deny that the bank is in jeopardy right up until the moment they close the doors, as a way to prevent bank runs. Because crypto is distributed, every holder is a bank manager, and must deny or minimize problems with the currency in order to maintain sentiment and prevent runs. This for me is one of the biggest problems with Bitcoin - it incentivizes the holders to become engines of disinformation.
- stephc_int13 5y ago
  What would happen if a significant fraction of the population was holding crypto?
  - zepto 5y ago
    Depends on the currency. Not all crypto is the same as Bitcoin. I’m pretty positive about cryptocurrency in the long term, once we have a design that incentivizes positive externalities. Seems like if a large part of the population of the US held Bitcoin, and 51% of the hash power remains in China, there will be some nasty geopolitical consequences.
- inter_netuser 5y ago
  Luckily, it's ledger is open for everyone to see, unlike banks' ledgers.
  - zepto 5y ago
    Unfortunately that is irrelevant to preventing runs.
    - inter_netuser 5y ago
      runs on bitcoin?
Tycho 5y ago
I love the sour grapes of the conventional investors. It must really grind their gears when BTC hits a new all time high after each of these draw-downs.

As someone with no real opinion on crypto the arrogant stupidity of the anti-crypto crowd (really prevalent on HN) is also quite tiring.

halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
For me, it's because the hype isn't around the technology (which is the interesting part and for the most part, why we're on HN), it's around the speculation. From the outside, looks like a bunch of gamblers constantly getting each other off on whether their bets will make them millionares. It's just...sad...at a level.
- kjakm 5y ago
  A fair opinion to have. I feel every HN thread on crypto now though dissolves to negativity (without any substance) + toxicity really quickly.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    It is hard not to be negative about something with such a huge environmental impact that doesn't seem to do anything but let gamblers gamble.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- tippytippytango 5y ago
  If crypto dies you will have to find a new group of people to feel superior to to feed your ego.
  - argvargc 5y ago
    And so, it seems, will you.
  - halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
    So feeling pity for the bag holders because they're gambling in a highly speculative market, of which most have no idea what they're buying, is now egotistical. Gotcha.
  - robjan 5y ago
    A very common saying in the crypto world to "no coiners" is "have fun being poor". They are eating their words.
- argvargc 5y ago
  Yes. And I'd add the "hype" around speculation works both ways, coming from mainly from two camps: - those who care only about making money - those who care only about seeing crypto fail OTOH, the excitement and bustling activity around the actual technology is largely ignored by the mainstream media, and seems also conspicuously-absent here. Many are not aware such a vibrant developmental ecosystem - with altruistic and exploratory goals far removed from a demented push to "make money" - even exists.
  - stephc_int13 5y ago
    I've tried to follow the scene, but I still don't understand the value behind the tech. In my opinion, states and currencies are almost the same thing. As an ex-anarchist I think that it is unreasonable to completely remove centralized states or currencies. Because the alternative is worse. People might have altruistic intentions, it does not matter.
- 52-6F-62 5y ago
  I agree. But also try taking a step back: why are they gambling? Sure, greed is ever-present in human history—that's a given. But also listen to the doubt in the present establishment. I know what it's like to be poor and what the banks do to you in that state. It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that there's so much being thrown at it. The chances of and potential returns are almost guaranteed better than a savings account. That's a problem, isn't it?
  - halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
    Almost guaranteed? If one put all that money into S&P indexes instead of coin, they'd be up 20% versus betting on crazy coin returns. Most people aren't equipped to handle the volatility of the coin market and most people don't understand that you don't actually lose until you realize losses. Therein creates almost more guaranteed stress than actually making money, as we're seeing now with all the bag holders from the past couple months getting destroyed.
    - 52-6F-62 5y ago
      Traditionally, poor people did not have the means or access to invest money in an index like S&P. Most people also aren't equipped to see their savings reduce in real value every month. This is a global phenomenon, not one isolated to first-world subdivisions. You seem to be mistaking my seeking the reason why people might do what appears [to you and many others] to be such a wildly irrational thing to do. I'm arguing it's not irrational in their case, but one of the most rational things one can do as someone without much means when faced with the ready alternatives. It becomes no surprise.

intotheabyss 5y ago

I hate the arrogant stupidity of people that dismiss crypto as a cult.

zepto 5y ago

It may be arrogant sounding, but it’s not stupid. It is in the financial interest of Bitcoin holders to talk up Bitcoin and defend it to the death. The senior management of regular banks in many countries are often required by law to deny that the bank is in jeopardy right up until the moment they close the doors, as a way to prevent bank runs. Because crypto is distributed, every holder is a bank manager, and must deny or minimize problems with the currency in order to maintain sentiment and prevent runs. This for me is one of the biggest problems with Bitcoin - it incentivizes the holders to become engines of disinformation.

stephc_int13 5y ago
What would happen if a significant fraction of the population was holding crypto?
- zepto 5y ago
  Depends on the currency. Not all crypto is the same as Bitcoin. I’m pretty positive about cryptocurrency in the long term, once we have a design that incentivizes positive externalities. Seems like if a large part of the population of the US held Bitcoin, and 51% of the hash power remains in China, there will be some nasty geopolitical consequences.
inter_netuser 5y ago
Luckily, it's ledger is open for everyone to see, unlike banks' ledgers.
- zepto 5y ago
  Unfortunately that is irrelevant to preventing runs.
  - inter_netuser 5y ago
    runs on bitcoin?

Tycho 5y ago

I love the sour grapes of the conventional investors. It must really grind their gears when BTC hits a new all time high after each of these draw-downs.