5 ms·

Key difference the German approach is prep for reintegration into society, typical US prison work more seem to be menial jobs (fruit picker).

adolph 5y ago
Are you saying that fruit picking is not an occupation integrated into society? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Farm_Workers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Farm_Workers
- Jolter 5y ago
  No, they are saying that fruit picking is not a job that requires training or qualifications. So prison work picking fruit does not help prepare the inmate for life after release.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - adolph 5y ago
    Are you saying that people in prison lack training or qualifications? Picking fruit is a valid occupation and one that is not limited by post-incarceration rules like not being a stockbroker after committing securities fraud or not being a childcare worker after pedophilia. While many agriculture jobs provide on the job rather than classroom training, there are skills to be acquired that can enhance productivity and value.
    - Jolter 5y ago
      I’m not saying that people in prison lack training or qualifications. That assumption would actually probably hold true, on average, but I have not studied that and that was not my point. My point was that fruit picking, in contrast to many other potential professional activities, is not something that is likely to help an inmate build a post-release career. When you apply for a job as a fruit picker, the employer is not going to reject those candidates who lack former experience.
    - burntoutfire 5y ago
      > Picking fruit is a valid occupation Not really, it's a seasonal job (at least in Germany, but are there climates where plants bear fruit year round?) that doesn't pay enough through the season to sustain you through the entire year.
- f6v 5y ago
  Competing with seasonal Mexican workers(or whoever else is exploited) will surely put the people back on the streets.
  - adolph 5y ago
    Why do you think former prisoners can't compete with agricultural contractors from Mexico?
    - Jolter 5y ago
      Your style of argument reminds me of the “psychiatrist mode” in Emacs.
      - Jolter 5y ago
        “Why do you say that my style of argument reminds you of the psychiatrist mode in Emacs?”
  - Avshalom 5y ago
    Perversely, after release you would be competing for employment against the same slave labor force you just left.
ekianjo 5y ago
What is the incidence of repeat crimes after release in Germany ?
- sammorrowdrums 5y ago
  Germany is about 35% reincarceration rate after 3 years, and US is about 29%, Although there are strong caveats, and like for like data doesn't exist. After 5 years US rate goes up a lot, my link doesn't have that for Germany. > Recidivism rates vary significantly around the world, and many countries have insufficient data. Rates of criminal recidivism around the world are reported to be as high as 50% and have not declined in recent years. It is challenging to compare recidivism between countries because definitions of recidivism outcomes vary from re-arrest to reoffending to reimprisonment. Within these definitions, countries differ in their inclusion of misdemeanors, fines, traffic offenses, and other crimes. Additionally, follow-up times (period after release from incarceration) are inconsistent between and within jurisdictions and vary between six months and five years. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/recidivism-rates-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/recidivis...
  - johannes1234321 5y ago
    > Although there are strong caveats I guess one also has to look at the sort of crimes and duration of the sentences. Also somebody who got a death penalty won't come back ...
    - pmoriarty 5y ago
      "somebody who got a death penalty won't come back" What percentage of the US prison population is on death row?
      - formerly_proven 5y ago
        0.1 %

adolph 5y ago

Are you saying that fruit picking is not an occupation integrated into society? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Farm_Workers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Farm_Workers

Jolter 5y ago
No, they are saying that fruit picking is not a job that requires training or qualifications. So prison work picking fruit does not help prepare the inmate for life after release.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- adolph 5y ago
  Are you saying that people in prison lack training or qualifications? Picking fruit is a valid occupation and one that is not limited by post-incarceration rules like not being a stockbroker after committing securities fraud or not being a childcare worker after pedophilia. While many agriculture jobs provide on the job rather than classroom training, there are skills to be acquired that can enhance productivity and value.
  - Jolter 5y ago
    I’m not saying that people in prison lack training or qualifications. That assumption would actually probably hold true, on average, but I have not studied that and that was not my point. My point was that fruit picking, in contrast to many other potential professional activities, is not something that is likely to help an inmate build a post-release career. When you apply for a job as a fruit picker, the employer is not going to reject those candidates who lack former experience.
  - burntoutfire 5y ago
    > Picking fruit is a valid occupation Not really, it's a seasonal job (at least in Germany, but are there climates where plants bear fruit year round?) that doesn't pay enough through the season to sustain you through the entire year.
f6v 5y ago
Competing with seasonal Mexican workers(or whoever else is exploited) will surely put the people back on the streets.
- adolph 5y ago
  Why do you think former prisoners can't compete with agricultural contractors from Mexico?
  - Jolter 5y ago
    Your style of argument reminds me of the “psychiatrist mode” in Emacs.
    - Jolter 5y ago
      “Why do you say that my style of argument reminds you of the psychiatrist mode in Emacs?”
- Avshalom 5y ago
  Perversely, after release you would be competing for employment against the same slave labor force you just left.

ekianjo 5y ago

What is the incidence of repeat crimes after release in Germany ?

sammorrowdrums 5y ago
Germany is about 35% reincarceration rate after 3 years, and US is about 29%, Although there are strong caveats, and like for like data doesn't exist. After 5 years US rate goes up a lot, my link doesn't have that for Germany. > Recidivism rates vary significantly around the world, and many countries have insufficient data. Rates of criminal recidivism around the world are reported to be as high as 50% and have not declined in recent years. It is challenging to compare recidivism between countries because definitions of recidivism outcomes vary from re-arrest to reoffending to reimprisonment. Within these definitions, countries differ in their inclusion of misdemeanors, fines, traffic offenses, and other crimes. Additionally, follow-up times (period after release from incarceration) are inconsistent between and within jurisdictions and vary between six months and five years. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/recidivism-rates-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/recidivis...
- johannes1234321 5y ago
  > Although there are strong caveats I guess one also has to look at the sort of crimes and duration of the sentences. Also somebody who got a death penalty won't come back ...
  - pmoriarty 5y ago
    "somebody who got a death penalty won't come back" What percentage of the US prison population is on death row?
    - formerly_proven 5y ago
      0.1 %