3 ms·

> China is a dirty old dinosaur of an economy, it has double the carbon emissions of the US while only generating 2/3 of the GDP! Does this account for the goo

by chopin 5y ago

> China is a dirty old dinosaur of an economy, it has double the carbon emissions of the US while only generating 2/3 of the GDP! Does this account for the goods exported from China to the US? These should be added to the emissions caused by the US. The west exported much of their environmental problems to poorer nations, including China.

swongel 5y ago
It doesn't, it also doesn't account for the fact that China has a larger population. The US only has about ~23% of China's population to sustain. GDP/CO2 is a silly metric to compare (No Patrick, selling financial products to increase GDP/CO2 isn't green). In reality China is just "greener" (in CO2 emission) than the USA if you measure more reasonable metrics like CO2 emission per capita.
spankyspangler 5y ago
> Does this account for the goods exported from China to the US? These should be added to the emissions caused by the US. No they shouldn't, China sells products in the global market. The emissions belong to them, along with the price they charge for the product. > The west exported much of their environmental problems to poorer nations, including China. Well, globalist corporations and politicians exported their environmental problems, I agree. The solution is not to give dirty polluting countries a free pass, it is to account for the externalities in tariffs.
- chopin 5y ago
  > No they shouldn't, China sells products in the global market. The emissions belong to them, along with the price they charge for the product. Well, emissions caused by burning oil would belong to Saudi Arabia, then. I believe the ultimate consumer of a product bears responsibility for its emissions. Without a consumer, the product would not have been made.
  - spankyspangler 5y ago
    Of course it does. Not much US oil usage, of course, because US uses oil extracted domestically. And most of China's carbon emissions come from burning coal not oil, and almost all of that coal is mined domestically. But Saudi should not get a free pass either, and should be made to pay for its profiteering from carbon pollution along with all other people, corporations, and countries accordingly.
  - LocalH 5y ago
    >I believe the ultimate consumer of a product bears responsibility for its emissions. Without a consumer, the product would not have been made. That's a nice way to pass the buck from the executives who actually make the decisions
  - spankyspangler 5y ago
    Not sure if you're editing your comment or I didn't read it entirely before. And your last sentence is not some kind of proof of your belief. Without a dirty cheap producer then a cleaner producer who has paid for the environmental externalities they created might have made the product.

by chopin 5y ago

swongel 5y ago

It doesn't, it also doesn't account for the fact that China has a larger population. The US only has about ~23% of China's population to sustain. GDP/CO2 is a silly metric to compare (No Patrick, selling financial products to increase GDP/CO2 isn't green). In reality China is just "greener" (in CO2 emission) than the USA if you measure more reasonable metrics like CO2 emission per capita.

spankyspangler 5y ago

> Does this account for the goods exported from China to the US? These should be added to the emissions caused by the US. No they shouldn't, China sells products in the global market. The emissions belong to them, along with the price they charge for the product. > The west exported much of their environmental problems to poorer nations, including China. Well, globalist corporations and politicians exported their environmental problems, I agree. The solution is not to give dirty polluting countries a free pass, it is to account for the externalities in tariffs.

chopin 5y ago
> No they shouldn't, China sells products in the global market. The emissions belong to them, along with the price they charge for the product. Well, emissions caused by burning oil would belong to Saudi Arabia, then. I believe the ultimate consumer of a product bears responsibility for its emissions. Without a consumer, the product would not have been made.
- spankyspangler 5y ago
  Of course it does. Not much US oil usage, of course, because US uses oil extracted domestically. And most of China's carbon emissions come from burning coal not oil, and almost all of that coal is mined domestically. But Saudi should not get a free pass either, and should be made to pay for its profiteering from carbon pollution along with all other people, corporations, and countries accordingly.
- LocalH 5y ago
  >I believe the ultimate consumer of a product bears responsibility for its emissions. Without a consumer, the product would not have been made. That's a nice way to pass the buck from the executives who actually make the decisions
- spankyspangler 5y ago
  Not sure if you're editing your comment or I didn't read it entirely before. And your last sentence is not some kind of proof of your belief. Without a dirty cheap producer then a cleaner producer who has paid for the environmental externalities they created might have made the product.