6 ms·

733 people died yesterday in the U.S. from COVID. On an annualized basis, that would be 267,545 deaths per year. On the other hand, 36,120 people die in car a

733 people died yesterday in the U.S. from COVID. On an annualized basis, that would be 267,545 deaths per year. On the other hand, 36,120 people die in car accidents per year. If you saw someone wearing a seatbelt when they were stopped at a red light, would you make fun of them due to the relative safety of that situation? If you had a friend that refused to drive after drinking any alcohol at all, would you make fun of him? Perhaps some people do more to protect themselves and others against COVID than is necessary, but perhaps we should appreciate their conscientiousness by contrast with the very large number of people who took unnecessary risks, downplayed the problem, got infected, infected others, and ultimately led to 33 million people getting sick and 600,000 dying.

JimBeans2131 5y ago
That 733 number is fake. It's all extremely exaggerated. Someone dies from a heart attack and they will flag it as a COVID death if any trace was detected with test equipment that is ridiculously overtuned to detect even non-infectious trace particles of the virus.
- cameldrv 5y ago
  No, that's just something you tell yourself to still feel like you're a decent human being.
  - JimBeans2131 5y ago
    No, I'm just older and wiser, more informed, and not extremely gullible. That is a childlike naivety to take the numbers at face value.
    - selestify 5y ago
      The numbers are indeed wrong... but in the other direction. Covid deaths counted as pneumonia deaths. Excess death way more than official counts. Who's gullible here? Everyone sees what they want to see.
      - miked85 5y ago
        > Everyone sees what they want to see Indeed. I am not sure why your assertion that the numbers are wrong in one direction is any better than someone else saying the opposite. Neither of you believe the data.
        JimBeans2131 5y ago
        Why should anyone mindlessly "believe" the data? Politicians are not infallible, and they are not the most honest people.
        miked85 5y ago
        I am not saying you should.
miked85 5y ago
> If you had a friend that refused to drive after drinking any alcohol at all, would you make fun of him? If he were drinking non-alcoholic beer, yes. This is probably a better comparison to the mask situation going on.
- eurasiantiger 5y ago
  Non-alcoholic beer is still a psychoactive drug due to all the psychoactive flavonoids and especially the heterocyclic aromatic amines present in all boiled mash beverages.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - mensetmanusman 5y ago
    WTF, gtp-3?
    - eurasiantiger 5y ago
      Look it up, because it checks out. ”Flavonoids” and ”heterocyclic aromatic amines” are groups of chemicals, which both contain some chemicals that act as MAO-A and MAO-B inhibitors in the human CNS, causing attentional, cognitive, emotional and behavioral changes.
      - mensetmanusman 5y ago
        https://www.bevindustry.com/articles/92090-flavonoids-provide-health-benefits-natural-colorants https://www.bevindustry.com/articles/92090-flavonoids-provid... So non-alcoholic beer could modify behavior like a blackberry smoothie?
        eurasiantiger 5y ago
        Sure, especially if you make a habit out of it and pair it with a stimulant, like nicotine or caffeine, which both are routinely consumed with large amounts of MAOIs (which are found in both tobacco smoke and brewed coffee). For an especially interesting evening, search ”monoamine oxidase” in the publicized tobacco industry documents: https://www.industrydocuments.ucsf.edu/tobacco/results/#q=%22Monoamine%20oxidase%22%20OR%20maoi%20OR%20%22mao-a%22%20OR%20%22maoa%22%20OR%20%22mao-b%22%20OR%20%22maob%22&h=%7B%22hideDuplicates%22%3Atrue%2C%22hideFolders%22%3Atrue%7D&subsite=tobacco&cache=true&count=37132J https://www.industrydocuments.ucsf.edu/tobacco/results/#q=%2...
krona 5y ago
AFAIK there still isn't a single documented case of outdoor transmission of the virus, anywhere in the world.
- detaro 5y ago
  There's been a few cases reported, e.g. here in Germany there was a cluster of cases of a spread among members of extended family that only met outside reported. And for the vast majority of cases, we simply have no data. Still, everything points to outdoors being massively safer, with the highest remaining risk if you stand still with someone infected for a long time. (And in many places masks have never been required outdoors, or only when in large groups of people)
  - manquer 5y ago
    If outdoors is that safe we shouldn't be having lockdowns and stay at home orders. We should be happy for people to be outdoors doing activities. Also sports shouldn't have stopped at all having audience
- abdullahkhalids 5y ago
  > Officials in Haridwar said that on Monday and Tuesday alone they detected nearly 2,000 infections among festival goers. https://www.dw.com/en/india-hindu-festival-turns-to-superspreader-event-as-covid-infections-soar/a-57218497 https://www.dw.com/en/india-hindu-festival-turns-to-superspr...
  - krona 5y ago
    A news report with the words "Experts say.." is noise. A case documented in a journal in a trial (e.g. DANMASK-19, or any of the dozens of other trials) is not an unreasonable standard of evidence in order to better determine what the true risk of outdoor transmission is.
    - _euac 5y ago
      How exactly would you confirm - beyond any doubt - that contagion happened outside? Most people live most of their lives inside a building of one sort or another, so it'd be almost impossible to 'document' a case of outside transmission. The closest thing we have is homeless populations - they spend most of their time exclusively outside - and they still get sick: https://www.sfpublicpress.org/covid-19-cases-spike-among-homeless-san-franciscans/ https://www.sfpublicpress.org/covid-19-cases-spike-among-hom... So making some big claim about how outdoors transmission is impossible is kind of preposterous.
flavius29663 5y ago
I was one of the first to wear a mask. I made them from tissue paper and staples and rubber bands. I would get weird looks for being the only one in the store that had a mask. 6 months later, when I got masks with valves, I staryed double masking. I never wore a mask in the open though. Just kept my distance from people and that's it. Especially in the state parks, that would make zero sense.
prepend 5y ago
> If you saw someone wearing a seatbelt when they were stopped at a red light, would you make fun of them due to the relative safety of that situation? There’s a causal relationship between seatbealts and utility in a crash. The fatality rate is lower because of the use of seatbelts. Wearing a mask while vaccinated is not causal with reduced transmission or death. I wouldn’t make fun of someone for anything like this, but if I saw the driver of the car next to me with a pillow in their lap with the intent to help during an accident, I would think that they are being silly. I would definitely think they were super silly if they were espousing the benefit of keeping pillows in laps while driving because it makes them feel comfortable, or can’t hurt, or is an easy thing to do.
- cameldrv 5y ago
  I'm not sure what your argument is here. Are you claiming that masks are ineffective in general or that vaccines are so effective that further protection is pointless?
  - prepend 5y ago
    I’m claiming, and not just me, that masks are ineffective at adding additional protection for a vaccinated person who wishes to not spread covid. Masks are quite effective at preventing the spread of COVID. I believe this is shared by public health authorities. Masks are tool that are good for some things so it depends the particular need. I’m not arguing either of your claims, but masks+vaccine are unnecessary. This is different from masks being effective or from vaccines requiring no further needed protections.
    - cameldrv 5y ago
      What evidence is there that masks provide no additional protection for vaccinated people? Are there special types of virus particles that come from vaccinated people that pass freely through filters? Or is it that when on the face of a vaccinated person, a mask is unable to filter out viruses?
      - 5y ago

JimBeans2131 5y ago

That 733 number is fake. It's all extremely exaggerated. Someone dies from a heart attack and they will flag it as a COVID death if any trace was detected with test equipment that is ridiculously overtuned to detect even non-infectious trace particles of the virus.

cameldrv 5y ago
No, that's just something you tell yourself to still feel like you're a decent human being.
- JimBeans2131 5y ago
  No, I'm just older and wiser, more informed, and not extremely gullible. That is a childlike naivety to take the numbers at face value.
  - selestify 5y ago
    The numbers are indeed wrong... but in the other direction. Covid deaths counted as pneumonia deaths. Excess death way more than official counts. Who's gullible here? Everyone sees what they want to see.
    - miked85 5y ago
      > Everyone sees what they want to see Indeed. I am not sure why your assertion that the numbers are wrong in one direction is any better than someone else saying the opposite. Neither of you believe the data.
      - JimBeans2131 5y ago
        Why should anyone mindlessly "believe" the data? Politicians are not infallible, and they are not the most honest people.
        miked85 5y ago
        I am not saying you should.

miked85 5y ago

> If you had a friend that refused to drive after drinking any alcohol at all, would you make fun of him? If he were drinking non-alcoholic beer, yes. This is probably a better comparison to the mask situation going on.

eurasiantiger 5y ago
Non-alcoholic beer is still a psychoactive drug due to all the psychoactive flavonoids and especially the heterocyclic aromatic amines present in all boiled mash beverages.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  WTF, gtp-3?
  - eurasiantiger 5y ago
    Look it up, because it checks out. ”Flavonoids” and ”heterocyclic aromatic amines” are groups of chemicals, which both contain some chemicals that act as MAO-A and MAO-B inhibitors in the human CNS, causing attentional, cognitive, emotional and behavioral changes.
    - mensetmanusman 5y ago
      https://www.bevindustry.com/articles/92090-flavonoids-provide-health-benefits-natural-colorants https://www.bevindustry.com/articles/92090-flavonoids-provid... So non-alcoholic beer could modify behavior like a blackberry smoothie?
      - eurasiantiger 5y ago
        Sure, especially if you make a habit out of it and pair it with a stimulant, like nicotine or caffeine, which both are routinely consumed with large amounts of MAOIs (which are found in both tobacco smoke and brewed coffee). For an especially interesting evening, search ”monoamine oxidase” in the publicized tobacco industry documents: https://www.industrydocuments.ucsf.edu/tobacco/results/#q=%22Monoamine%20oxidase%22%20OR%20maoi%20OR%20%22mao-a%22%20OR%20%22maoa%22%20OR%20%22mao-b%22%20OR%20%22maob%22&h=%7B%22hideDuplicates%22%3Atrue%2C%22hideFolders%22%3Atrue%7D&subsite=tobacco&cache=true&count=37132J https://www.industrydocuments.ucsf.edu/tobacco/results/#q=%2...

krona 5y ago

AFAIK there still isn't a single documented case of outdoor transmission of the virus, anywhere in the world.

detaro 5y ago
There's been a few cases reported, e.g. here in Germany there was a cluster of cases of a spread among members of extended family that only met outside reported. And for the vast majority of cases, we simply have no data. Still, everything points to outdoors being massively safer, with the highest remaining risk if you stand still with someone infected for a long time. (And in many places masks have never been required outdoors, or only when in large groups of people)
- manquer 5y ago
  If outdoors is that safe we shouldn't be having lockdowns and stay at home orders. We should be happy for people to be outdoors doing activities. Also sports shouldn't have stopped at all having audience
abdullahkhalids 5y ago
> Officials in Haridwar said that on Monday and Tuesday alone they detected nearly 2,000 infections among festival goers. https://www.dw.com/en/india-hindu-festival-turns-to-superspreader-event-as-covid-infections-soar/a-57218497 https://www.dw.com/en/india-hindu-festival-turns-to-superspr...
- krona 5y ago
  A news report with the words "Experts say.." is noise. A case documented in a journal in a trial (e.g. DANMASK-19, or any of the dozens of other trials) is not an unreasonable standard of evidence in order to better determine what the true risk of outdoor transmission is.
  - _euac 5y ago
    How exactly would you confirm - beyond any doubt - that contagion happened outside? Most people live most of their lives inside a building of one sort or another, so it'd be almost impossible to 'document' a case of outside transmission. The closest thing we have is homeless populations - they spend most of their time exclusively outside - and they still get sick: https://www.sfpublicpress.org/covid-19-cases-spike-among-homeless-san-franciscans/ https://www.sfpublicpress.org/covid-19-cases-spike-among-hom... So making some big claim about how outdoors transmission is impossible is kind of preposterous.

flavius29663 5y ago

I was one of the first to wear a mask. I made them from tissue paper and staples and rubber bands. I would get weird looks for being the only one in the store that had a mask. 6 months later, when I got masks with valves, I staryed double masking. I never wore a mask in the open though. Just kept my distance from people and that's it. Especially in the state parks, that would make zero sense.

prepend 5y ago

> If you saw someone wearing a seatbelt when they were stopped at a red light, would you make fun of them due to the relative safety of that situation? There’s a causal relationship between seatbealts and utility in a crash. The fatality rate is lower because of the use of seatbelts. Wearing a mask while vaccinated is not causal with reduced transmission or death. I wouldn’t make fun of someone for anything like this, but if I saw the driver of the car next to me with a pillow in their lap with the intent to help during an accident, I would think that they are being silly. I would definitely think they were super silly if they were espousing the benefit of keeping pillows in laps while driving because it makes them feel comfortable, or can’t hurt, or is an easy thing to do.

cameldrv 5y ago
I'm not sure what your argument is here. Are you claiming that masks are ineffective in general or that vaccines are so effective that further protection is pointless?
- prepend 5y ago
  I’m claiming, and not just me, that masks are ineffective at adding additional protection for a vaccinated person who wishes to not spread covid. Masks are quite effective at preventing the spread of COVID. I believe this is shared by public health authorities. Masks are tool that are good for some things so it depends the particular need. I’m not arguing either of your claims, but masks+vaccine are unnecessary. This is different from masks being effective or from vaccines requiring no further needed protections.
  - cameldrv 5y ago
    What evidence is there that masks provide no additional protection for vaccinated people? Are there special types of virus particles that come from vaccinated people that pass freely through filters? Or is it that when on the face of a vaccinated person, a mask is unable to filter out viruses?
    - 5y ago